Yes, this whole business is so icky in so many ways, including that of forcing one to acknowledge that on this (and often this alone) Republicans make more sense than Democrats. Ugh.
Until the trans craziness hit, I viewed Democrats as more right and more wise on every single issue. Not any more. If nothing else, trans activists have shown me how illogical well-meaning liberals can be. My thoughts still go back to the emails I exchanged (about two years ago) with a liberal poetry editor (I am a poet) who was trying to convince me of the existential torture of being three years old and believing that you were born in the wrong body -- as if he knew! Liberals have allowed themselves to be extraordinarily gullible.
Thank you Hortense and Perry for your comments! As a very liberal Democrat who lives in a city in a state that is so тАЬblueтАЭ that I feel like I live in the sky ЁЯдк!, I really тАЬfeelтАЭ you on this. тАЬIckyтАЭ is such a perfect word to describe the weird rites and rituals of people trying to think that they can fundamentally change sex. I feel so alone in my critique and I know that I can never go back to thinking that a human being can be тАЬborn in the wrong bodyтАЭ. Yes, I used to thing that. I am so disturbed by the attempts to erase womenтАЩs spaces and even the word woman! --- тАЬpregnant peopleтАЭ!!!!!! no, no, no.... I am even more disturbed by public schools attempting to teach trans ideology to children, and the idea of messing with childrenтАЩs (and young peopleтАЩs-- I shudder to think of 20 year old me [eons ago!] making irreversible decisions about anything!) bodies fills me with incomprehensible despair. Why would anyone, especially someone who calls herself/himself a doctor, advocate for these practices?
I agree with you, Ruby. My very blue state -- Rhode Island -- is not really as blue as it appears. It has a strong blue-collar population, but those blue-collar workers understand that the Democrats provide better government services than Republicans do, and so many of them vote Democratic -- though certainly not all of them. To the best of my knowledge, there are no drag queens reading stories to kids in Rhode Island.
I agree with you about professionals. No teacher should EVER tell his or her students that they are free to choose their gender. I know there are teachers who are doing that, and it is a total lie. Too many professionals are liberals, and they don't seem to be aware about the harm that trans people are doing to kids. "You are trans? How exciting! How wonderful! You can be anything you want to be!" (Puke.) If I were a school principle, I would be talking to all the teachers about it. "It is not up to you to talk to kids about their sexuality."
The efforts of trans people to make women invisible will not work or last. A few institutions have picked up on the "pregnant people" lingo, but it will fade. Everyone knows that only a woman gets pregnant. If you ever have a professional talking to you about "pregnant people", just look them in the eye and say, "Women! Not 'people' !"
Thank you Perry. I appreciate hearing your take on Rhode IslandтАЩs тАЬbluenessтАЭ. ItтАЩs different where I live and it is probably its own blue bubble. I just think that a lot of people who support the idea of trans do not really go too deep in their thinking. I am fairly certain that was what I did when I mouthed platitudes like, тАЬmaybe he was born in the wrong bodyтАЭ! I was trying to understand, and I was trying to fit in and I was also trying to summon up compassion. I started to educate myself because there was this tiny little voice inside that did NOT understand, and as I proceeded to learn more, my belief structure crumbled. I hope that those Democratic Rhode Islanders you mentioned can nudge the Democratic Party in a saner direction. Many of the Democratic movers and shakers in CA (my blue bubble) are really into using the transgender train as a means to signal that they are not Republican. Some of the stuff they are coming up with is truly ludicrous/scary [take your pick]-- CA as a sanctuary state for тАЬtransтАЭ kids, etc...
Yes, I know that the trans community has done a good job brain-washing the people of California. I understand that Newsom is also brain-washed. Sadly, Biden is brain-washed too, as he supports everything trans no matter whether it is good or bad. I just don't understand why people aren't able to distinguish good from bad in social movements. Protecting trans people in housing and employment (that's good); allowing trans people to redefine what gender is for the whole human race, influence children, displace women in women's private spaces, and shame people who disagree with them out of their jobs (THAT'S BAD). Is that so difficult?
Yup, yup, yup - I agree with you here , especially:
тАЬ I just don't understand why people aren't able to distinguish good from bad in social movements.тАЭ
It seems like itтАЩs an all or nothing deal? Inability to see the тАЬgrayтАЭ? (But when you think about it, nothing too тАЬgrayтАЭтАЩor in between about people getting surgical interventions or cross-sex hormones.) Maybe thatтАЩs it? and perhaps there is a name for this in psychology or philosophy? --- Something so difficult to envision as prosaic or typical or normal (I could be skewered for using normal like this where I live ЁЯе╣)--- something out of the ordinary for most people--- in order for people to embrace the humanity of someone or a practice that is difficult to understand, maybe we need to accept the whole big idea of it ( Exulansic talks about trans as religion) and so we pretend to make sense of something that does not make sense. And maybe in our wanting to ensure that all people have the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness we become easily manipulated to accept as true someone elseтАЩs truth, as if we have to all believe in the same deity in order to belong?
Sorry for the longwindedness!!! Trying to understand тАЬmy peopleтАЭ, which means all human beings in all our messiness.
Anyway, thanks for putting out that clear thought: тАЬI just don't understand why people aren't able to distinguish good from bad in social movements. тАЬ
Yes. When I think about the harm that liberal-leaning parents can do to their kids (like the parents of Jazz Jennings) I want to cry. There may be thousands of liberal parents around the U.S. and other Western countries who are HOPING to have a trans child so they can have a "special" project to keep them busy.
Jazz's parents don't seem so liberal to me. They were basically transing the gay away- like Susie Green and her husband, Jazz's parents were less than thrilled with a nonconventional boy. Extra mommie points and attention for that Munchausen's by Proxy goodness.
I understand what you are saying. This is also happening in the Middle East, where they are hardly liberal. There is so much hatred of homosexuality among religious groups that parents would rather have a trans girl than a gay boy. Indeed, the hatred of homosexuality in the world is a sickness unto itself. I'm gay, and it didn't make me a bad person. So Jazz's parent may not have been liberal in the sense of accepting their boy as gay -- but then, it does take a certain amount of liberalism to accept a trans child. Also, Jazz's mother started the campaign to convert her son to a girl when he was only three. She WANTED to have a trans child. There's no doubt in my mind that she was looking forward to the challenge of having a "special" child.
'liberals have allowed themselves to be extraordinarily gullible.' So sadly true in so very many ways. In the past few years I have watched most of my long time liberal community lose their collective critical thinking minds and guzzle down the trans gender koolaid, the covid koolaid, etc etc, I am independent because frankly I cannot stomach the fanaticism and hypocrisy of either the dems or reps at this point.
I'm not a scientist, and I know far less about vaccines than medical doctors and researchers do. I got every Covid vaccine that came out, and there is no evidence that I was harmed by any of them. You sound to me like a vaccine denier, and I'm not with you on that. Yes, there are issues involving vaccines, but in my view they do more good than harm. As for all the social harm you talk about, I don't have enough information to agree with you. Staying home was difficult for a lot of people, and many kids fell behind in their schoolwork, but most people survived okay. Now, what they did in China was monstrous; but here in the U.S., most measures recommended by the government were voluntary. In the U.S., one thing I know for sure is that there were more deaths among conservatives who wouldn't get vaccinated than among the liberals who did.
You need to be careful about where you get your information.
You say that you aren't a vax denier or a covid denier, but then you launch into all your arguments again. I lived through the pandemic too. I remember that there were people who were dealing with the public who were required to get vaccines, and that wasn't something I was opposed to. I believe in the efficacy of vaccines. A vaccine isn't a death sentence. My recollection is that not that many people had bad reactions to the vaccines. When you receive a vaccine, they are not ripping your arm off or chopping your head off. If you have a bad reaction to it, you'll recover.
However, I don't know everything about every incident that occurred during the pandemic, and that is why I can't debate the points you raise (beyond making general statements). The pandemic was a difficult situation for everyone, and our elected leaders (except Trump of course) did their best to deal with it.
My participation in this discussion is over. This is a Substack about transgender overreach, and your concerns about alleged government overreach during the pandemic don't belong here. I quickly scanned your last post, and I won't be reading any more of them if they are about the response to the pandemic. Among other things, you are spouting facts which sound like they came from right-wing media. I read the mainstream news all during the pandemic, and I was satisfied that the government was doing as best as it could during a bad situation.
By the way, above you said "in my country alone" -- what country is that? I am in the U.S., and I can't speak to issues that arose in any other country.
I am sorry but Republicans do not make sense. for them opposing this trans shit is part of a belief system which includes rigid gender roles, denying reproductive rights to women and often to the the men who are the fathers of the babies the women are forced to have. They are (were? - it varies I think) anti-porn for religious reasons but support the porn industry and resist prevention of violence against women, especially stalking, domestic violence and gun control provisions. I could go on. The Republicans are not my friends just because they have come down on the right side by accident.
In no way do I think the Republicans are my friends; all I was saying was that they make more sense than Democrats on this one point. That's literally my only point on this. I am horrified to find myself agreeing with Republicans whose every other stance I revile, and yes it's true that their reasons for their stance are highly questionable. That's my point: it's horrifying that Republicans make more sense than Democrats on this.
I understand this point but I am concerned about what is happening. There have been people, maybe a lot of them, across the range of gender critical substacks and other webs groups who announce they are no longer on the left.
There is also a 1980s history of feminists allying with right-wing evangelical Xtian groups on anti-porn issues. The result of that was an anti-sexuality discourse in which porn was written about as if it were evidence of all male sexuality and all positive approaches to sexuality were a pathway to violent abusive sex.
The outcomes of republicans very different starting point are very obvious further down the track and so I am objecting to you saying you agree on this one point. There is no just one point and the Republicans only make more sense if you refuse to connect up the dots that they themselves are connecting up with their other policies.
Observing this outcome means I am opposed to fighting transgender ideology by allying with the republicans, evangelical xtians etc. It also just enrages me to be told that TRA policy and practices are the left and we have to leave the left to oppose TRA. I hope this makes sense to you?
By saying that I agree on this one point I mean precisely that I agree on this one point. I have never voted for a Republican and cannot imagine doing so, but I agree with them on this one point: that kids under 18 should not be allowed to choose hormonal or surgical gender-reassignment treatment or whatever it's called at the moment. That's it. I have no illusions about the political posturing on their part (nor on the other side for that matter), and I think the bathroom debates are absurd.
Ergo: object all you want to my saying I agree on this one point, but that's the reality: I agree on this one point. You are welcome to disagree with me, on this one point or on any other.
It's interesting to scroll down on the new Protect Kids CA ballot initiative website and see the polling, where they say that 67% of California Democrats do not want blockers, hormones, surgeries "allowed" for minors. It may be that they are extrapolating from a national poll - or it may be that polled California Democrats are in stark disagreement with our AG. The lead time is long - these are initiatives for the Nov 2024 ballot. (https://protectkidsca.com/protect-kids-california-launches-three-ballot-initiatives-to-protect-children-and-support-parental-rights/)
well thatтАЩs good news! could it be that in the privacy of oneтАЩs home (or mind), we Californians feel more comfortable telling the truth? ( I include myself in this).
Yes, in my experience there are lots of people who are horrified by the idea of encouraging children to pick their own sex and allowing medical intervention to ruin lives as a result. (Gender is another thing, despite all the rhetoric, and I think it's our absurdly rigid gender divisions that exacerbate all this; let the boys wear makeup and dresses and the girls long to be construction workers; that would make the world a much less oppressive place). But people just don't want to enter these arguments, because it's so very violently contentious. I think this phenomenon of people being cowed into silence on the left greatly skews the debate.
Yes, the shut-down of an open dialogue by trans activists is a big problem. I have contemplated writing an article on my own blog about whether or not we are justified to dislike trans people themselves, given their very bad behavior. Trans activists, and their bad ideas, are the real issue here.
Yeah, I just checked the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh gender/endocrine website and they still post that they do gender affirming care and hormone therapy. Ugh.
The whistle-blower is liberal, Saint Louis is a liberal city, St Louis Children's hospital is one of the biggest / top in the country. It's a huge win!
For sure. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the staff/doctors of the clinic just crawl across the state to Illinois, which is liberal and continue to do evil there. (But the precedent the closure of STL center sets is priceless in my opinion).
I'd be more pleased if this "pullback" occurred in a blue state instead of a red state which had just passed a new law. Still, any pullback is good.
Yes, this whole business is so icky in so many ways, including that of forcing one to acknowledge that on this (and often this alone) Republicans make more sense than Democrats. Ugh.
Until the trans craziness hit, I viewed Democrats as more right and more wise on every single issue. Not any more. If nothing else, trans activists have shown me how illogical well-meaning liberals can be. My thoughts still go back to the emails I exchanged (about two years ago) with a liberal poetry editor (I am a poet) who was trying to convince me of the existential torture of being three years old and believing that you were born in the wrong body -- as if he knew! Liberals have allowed themselves to be extraordinarily gullible.
Thank you Hortense and Perry for your comments! As a very liberal Democrat who lives in a city in a state that is so тАЬblueтАЭ that I feel like I live in the sky ЁЯдк!, I really тАЬfeelтАЭ you on this. тАЬIckyтАЭ is such a perfect word to describe the weird rites and rituals of people trying to think that they can fundamentally change sex. I feel so alone in my critique and I know that I can never go back to thinking that a human being can be тАЬborn in the wrong bodyтАЭ. Yes, I used to thing that. I am so disturbed by the attempts to erase womenтАЩs spaces and even the word woman! --- тАЬpregnant peopleтАЭ!!!!!! no, no, no.... I am even more disturbed by public schools attempting to teach trans ideology to children, and the idea of messing with childrenтАЩs (and young peopleтАЩs-- I shudder to think of 20 year old me [eons ago!] making irreversible decisions about anything!) bodies fills me with incomprehensible despair. Why would anyone, especially someone who calls herself/himself a doctor, advocate for these practices?
I agree with you, Ruby. My very blue state -- Rhode Island -- is not really as blue as it appears. It has a strong blue-collar population, but those blue-collar workers understand that the Democrats provide better government services than Republicans do, and so many of them vote Democratic -- though certainly not all of them. To the best of my knowledge, there are no drag queens reading stories to kids in Rhode Island.
I agree with you about professionals. No teacher should EVER tell his or her students that they are free to choose their gender. I know there are teachers who are doing that, and it is a total lie. Too many professionals are liberals, and they don't seem to be aware about the harm that trans people are doing to kids. "You are trans? How exciting! How wonderful! You can be anything you want to be!" (Puke.) If I were a school principle, I would be talking to all the teachers about it. "It is not up to you to talk to kids about their sexuality."
The efforts of trans people to make women invisible will not work or last. A few institutions have picked up on the "pregnant people" lingo, but it will fade. Everyone knows that only a woman gets pregnant. If you ever have a professional talking to you about "pregnant people", just look them in the eye and say, "Women! Not 'people' !"
Thank you Perry. I appreciate hearing your take on Rhode IslandтАЩs тАЬbluenessтАЭ. ItтАЩs different where I live and it is probably its own blue bubble. I just think that a lot of people who support the idea of trans do not really go too deep in their thinking. I am fairly certain that was what I did when I mouthed platitudes like, тАЬmaybe he was born in the wrong bodyтАЭ! I was trying to understand, and I was trying to fit in and I was also trying to summon up compassion. I started to educate myself because there was this tiny little voice inside that did NOT understand, and as I proceeded to learn more, my belief structure crumbled. I hope that those Democratic Rhode Islanders you mentioned can nudge the Democratic Party in a saner direction. Many of the Democratic movers and shakers in CA (my blue bubble) are really into using the transgender train as a means to signal that they are not Republican. Some of the stuff they are coming up with is truly ludicrous/scary [take your pick]-- CA as a sanctuary state for тАЬtransтАЭ kids, etc...
Yes, I know that the trans community has done a good job brain-washing the people of California. I understand that Newsom is also brain-washed. Sadly, Biden is brain-washed too, as he supports everything trans no matter whether it is good or bad. I just don't understand why people aren't able to distinguish good from bad in social movements. Protecting trans people in housing and employment (that's good); allowing trans people to redefine what gender is for the whole human race, influence children, displace women in women's private spaces, and shame people who disagree with them out of their jobs (THAT'S BAD). Is that so difficult?
Yup, yup, yup - I agree with you here , especially:
тАЬ I just don't understand why people aren't able to distinguish good from bad in social movements.тАЭ
It seems like itтАЩs an all or nothing deal? Inability to see the тАЬgrayтАЭ? (But when you think about it, nothing too тАЬgrayтАЭтАЩor in between about people getting surgical interventions or cross-sex hormones.) Maybe thatтАЩs it? and perhaps there is a name for this in psychology or philosophy? --- Something so difficult to envision as prosaic or typical or normal (I could be skewered for using normal like this where I live ЁЯе╣)--- something out of the ordinary for most people--- in order for people to embrace the humanity of someone or a practice that is difficult to understand, maybe we need to accept the whole big idea of it ( Exulansic talks about trans as religion) and so we pretend to make sense of something that does not make sense. And maybe in our wanting to ensure that all people have the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness we become easily manipulated to accept as true someone elseтАЩs truth, as if we have to all believe in the same deity in order to belong?
Sorry for the longwindedness!!! Trying to understand тАЬmy peopleтАЭ, which means all human beings in all our messiness.
Anyway, thanks for putting out that clear thought: тАЬI just don't understand why people aren't able to distinguish good from bad in social movements. тАЬ
Could not agree more.
Yes. When I think about the harm that liberal-leaning parents can do to their kids (like the parents of Jazz Jennings) I want to cry. There may be thousands of liberal parents around the U.S. and other Western countries who are HOPING to have a trans child so they can have a "special" project to keep them busy.
Jazz's parents don't seem so liberal to me. They were basically transing the gay away- like Susie Green and her husband, Jazz's parents were less than thrilled with a nonconventional boy. Extra mommie points and attention for that Munchausen's by Proxy goodness.
I understand what you are saying. This is also happening in the Middle East, where they are hardly liberal. There is so much hatred of homosexuality among religious groups that parents would rather have a trans girl than a gay boy. Indeed, the hatred of homosexuality in the world is a sickness unto itself. I'm gay, and it didn't make me a bad person. So Jazz's parent may not have been liberal in the sense of accepting their boy as gay -- but then, it does take a certain amount of liberalism to accept a trans child. Also, Jazz's mother started the campaign to convert her son to a girl when he was only three. She WANTED to have a trans child. There's no doubt in my mind that she was looking forward to the challenge of having a "special" child.
Yeah, I think it was more MBP than anything political, TBH.
'liberals have allowed themselves to be extraordinarily gullible.' So sadly true in so very many ways. In the past few years I have watched most of my long time liberal community lose their collective critical thinking minds and guzzle down the trans gender koolaid, the covid koolaid, etc etc, I am independent because frankly I cannot stomach the fanaticism and hypocrisy of either the dems or reps at this point.
Well, I guess I'm one who guzzled the Covid Koolaid. It's pretty obvious to me that we had a pandemic.
I'm not a scientist, and I know far less about vaccines than medical doctors and researchers do. I got every Covid vaccine that came out, and there is no evidence that I was harmed by any of them. You sound to me like a vaccine denier, and I'm not with you on that. Yes, there are issues involving vaccines, but in my view they do more good than harm. As for all the social harm you talk about, I don't have enough information to agree with you. Staying home was difficult for a lot of people, and many kids fell behind in their schoolwork, but most people survived okay. Now, what they did in China was monstrous; but here in the U.S., most measures recommended by the government were voluntary. In the U.S., one thing I know for sure is that there were more deaths among conservatives who wouldn't get vaccinated than among the liberals who did.
You need to be careful about where you get your information.
You say that you aren't a vax denier or a covid denier, but then you launch into all your arguments again. I lived through the pandemic too. I remember that there were people who were dealing with the public who were required to get vaccines, and that wasn't something I was opposed to. I believe in the efficacy of vaccines. A vaccine isn't a death sentence. My recollection is that not that many people had bad reactions to the vaccines. When you receive a vaccine, they are not ripping your arm off or chopping your head off. If you have a bad reaction to it, you'll recover.
However, I don't know everything about every incident that occurred during the pandemic, and that is why I can't debate the points you raise (beyond making general statements). The pandemic was a difficult situation for everyone, and our elected leaders (except Trump of course) did their best to deal with it.
My participation in this discussion is over. This is a Substack about transgender overreach, and your concerns about alleged government overreach during the pandemic don't belong here. I quickly scanned your last post, and I won't be reading any more of them if they are about the response to the pandemic. Among other things, you are spouting facts which sound like they came from right-wing media. I read the mainstream news all during the pandemic, and I was satisfied that the government was doing as best as it could during a bad situation.
By the way, above you said "in my country alone" -- what country is that? I am in the U.S., and I can't speak to issues that arose in any other country.
I am sorry but Republicans do not make sense. for them opposing this trans shit is part of a belief system which includes rigid gender roles, denying reproductive rights to women and often to the the men who are the fathers of the babies the women are forced to have. They are (were? - it varies I think) anti-porn for religious reasons but support the porn industry and resist prevention of violence against women, especially stalking, domestic violence and gun control provisions. I could go on. The Republicans are not my friends just because they have come down on the right side by accident.
why I am one of the politically тАЬhomelessтАЭ...
In no way do I think the Republicans are my friends; all I was saying was that they make more sense than Democrats on this one point. That's literally my only point on this. I am horrified to find myself agreeing with Republicans whose every other stance I revile, and yes it's true that their reasons for their stance are highly questionable. That's my point: it's horrifying that Republicans make more sense than Democrats on this.
I understand this point but I am concerned about what is happening. There have been people, maybe a lot of them, across the range of gender critical substacks and other webs groups who announce they are no longer on the left.
There is also a 1980s history of feminists allying with right-wing evangelical Xtian groups on anti-porn issues. The result of that was an anti-sexuality discourse in which porn was written about as if it were evidence of all male sexuality and all positive approaches to sexuality were a pathway to violent abusive sex.
The outcomes of republicans very different starting point are very obvious further down the track and so I am objecting to you saying you agree on this one point. There is no just one point and the Republicans only make more sense if you refuse to connect up the dots that they themselves are connecting up with their other policies.
Observing this outcome means I am opposed to fighting transgender ideology by allying with the republicans, evangelical xtians etc. It also just enrages me to be told that TRA policy and practices are the left and we have to leave the left to oppose TRA. I hope this makes sense to you?
By saying that I agree on this one point I mean precisely that I agree on this one point. I have never voted for a Republican and cannot imagine doing so, but I agree with them on this one point: that kids under 18 should not be allowed to choose hormonal or surgical gender-reassignment treatment or whatever it's called at the moment. That's it. I have no illusions about the political posturing on their part (nor on the other side for that matter), and I think the bathroom debates are absurd.
Ergo: object all you want to my saying I agree on this one point, but that's the reality: I agree on this one point. You are welcome to disagree with me, on this one point or on any other.
It's interesting to scroll down on the new Protect Kids CA ballot initiative website and see the polling, where they say that 67% of California Democrats do not want blockers, hormones, surgeries "allowed" for minors. It may be that they are extrapolating from a national poll - or it may be that polled California Democrats are in stark disagreement with our AG. The lead time is long - these are initiatives for the Nov 2024 ballot. (https://protectkidsca.com/protect-kids-california-launches-three-ballot-initiatives-to-protect-children-and-support-parental-rights/)
well thatтАЩs good news! could it be that in the privacy of oneтАЩs home (or mind), we Californians feel more comfortable telling the truth? ( I include myself in this).
Yes, in my experience there are lots of people who are horrified by the idea of encouraging children to pick their own sex and allowing medical intervention to ruin lives as a result. (Gender is another thing, despite all the rhetoric, and I think it's our absurdly rigid gender divisions that exacerbate all this; let the boys wear makeup and dresses and the girls long to be construction workers; that would make the world a much less oppressive place). But people just don't want to enter these arguments, because it's so very violently contentious. I think this phenomenon of people being cowed into silence on the left greatly skews the debate.
Yes, the shut-down of an open dialogue by trans activists is a big problem. I have contemplated writing an article on my own blog about whether or not we are justified to dislike trans people themselves, given their very bad behavior. Trans activists, and their bad ideas, are the real issue here.
Yeah, I just checked the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh gender/endocrine website and they still post that they do gender affirming care and hormone therapy. Ugh.
Don't be a sore winner , Perry :)
The whistle-blower is liberal, Saint Louis is a liberal city, St Louis Children's hospital is one of the biggest / top in the country. It's a huge win!
If that's true, I'm glad. Still, the new law gave them no choice but to "come to their senses".
For sure. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the staff/doctors of the clinic just crawl across the state to Illinois, which is liberal and continue to do evil there. (But the precedent the closure of STL center sets is priceless in my opinion).
The blues are completely captured by the AGP lobby. It won't happen.