You can also find this episode wherever you listen to podcasts — just search for Calmversations with Benjamin Boyce — but, if you go the audio-only route, you’ll miss out on all the face work Benjamin does, which would be a pity: And I don’t stint on facial expressions either, if that’s what you’re here for:
WPATH was formerly the Harry Benjamin something something, and there were more doctors participating, including Dr. Stephen B. Levine, who has changed his position on "affirmation" after several of his "diagnosed trans" patients detransitioned and one killed himself 7 years after the surgeries.
I propose a "first steps" involving somatic mind/body work along with psychotherapy for deep understanding of childhood abuse/trauma/influences/sexism. The "sexologist" researchers jumped quickly into the life-altering surgeries as cures based on their own biases and the eagerness of the surgeons to try all the new bells and whistles in the 1980s-90s. Pride awareness was part of the trend.
For mind/body concepts from Ute Heggen, former professional dancer, ex-wife of a man who says he's a woman and mother of Ute's children, visit Ute Heggen youtube channel. I also touch on the experience of watching my then husband go down that rabbit hole, how I came to write the memoir, In the Curated Woods, True Tales from a Grass Widow. Thanks Eliza, for this crucial research!
I think Benjamin had a great point when he tried pressing you on how you process this sort of information and knowledge - I hope you are talking to a therapist yourself as all mental health workers are encouraged to do or else this could take a terrible toll upon you!
I'm doing OK <3. There are days where it hits me hard. But I've got good baseline mental health, amazing family, wonderful friends, and lots of people I've met through this to check in with.
I like Boyce's channel, but was a bit put off by his feeling that evil-doers (of any sort, I suppose, but he was specifically talking about pushers of gender-woo) will be punished in an afterlife of some sort. Since I watched his "What I believe" video, I wondered how much his strong religious beliefs (tho' non-doctrinal as he claims) influence his beliefs in the gender realm, and to what extent.
Not saying his stuff isn't valid because of that, but it concerns me somewhat.
I think people come to this issue from a lot of different places. His starting point isn't mine, that's for sure. But he's a good interviewer and he's done a lot to give detransitioners a voice in particular and I think that's valuable even if we disagree on some fundamentals.
Of course; and that point was discussed in the video (aligning with people and groups who might differ in all ways except this one issue), so I get it. And I generally don't reject anybody out of hand based on how they arrived at their viewpoints, but try to just be conscious of all things contributing to a discussion - each person's viewpoint, the subtleties of their arguments, their backgrounds, and other bits of context that can inform me of the whole picture. It's why I'm of a gender-critical mindset, I think (because I take it all in and think "What makes sense here? What is fair?"); also why I can have (or try to have) reasonable conversations with virulent racists - I take a "where is this person coming from?" attitude.
That said, I still do wonder if coming at this from a religiously philosophical place alters certain specific aspects of their approach, and in what way. But I reserve judgment until I see something obviously "bad" happening.
Elizabeth, listening to your conversation with Mr Boyce about WPATH and its pernicious ideology and actions, brings to mind another woman, the actress Leah Remini and her battle/struggle with Scientology. You and she have a lot in common.
That was an amazing interview as well as exchange. We need so much more of such discourse!!!
WPATH was formerly the Harry Benjamin something something, and there were more doctors participating, including Dr. Stephen B. Levine, who has changed his position on "affirmation" after several of his "diagnosed trans" patients detransitioned and one killed himself 7 years after the surgeries.
I propose a "first steps" involving somatic mind/body work along with psychotherapy for deep understanding of childhood abuse/trauma/influences/sexism. The "sexologist" researchers jumped quickly into the life-altering surgeries as cures based on their own biases and the eagerness of the surgeons to try all the new bells and whistles in the 1980s-90s. Pride awareness was part of the trend.
For mind/body concepts from Ute Heggen, former professional dancer, ex-wife of a man who says he's a woman and mother of Ute's children, visit Ute Heggen youtube channel. I also touch on the experience of watching my then husband go down that rabbit hole, how I came to write the memoir, In the Curated Woods, True Tales from a Grass Widow. Thanks Eliza, for this crucial research!
Great interview and thank you for your candour.
I think Benjamin had a great point when he tried pressing you on how you process this sort of information and knowledge - I hope you are talking to a therapist yourself as all mental health workers are encouraged to do or else this could take a terrible toll upon you!
I'm doing OK <3. There are days where it hits me hard. But I've got good baseline mental health, amazing family, wonderful friends, and lots of people I've met through this to check in with.
Really enjoyed this thoughtful talk. It’s so good to hear that you’re not the only person saying to yourself ‘wait... what?!’
It was excellent. Thank you
I very much enjoyed that conversation.
I like Boyce's channel, but was a bit put off by his feeling that evil-doers (of any sort, I suppose, but he was specifically talking about pushers of gender-woo) will be punished in an afterlife of some sort. Since I watched his "What I believe" video, I wondered how much his strong religious beliefs (tho' non-doctrinal as he claims) influence his beliefs in the gender realm, and to what extent.
Not saying his stuff isn't valid because of that, but it concerns me somewhat.
I think people come to this issue from a lot of different places. His starting point isn't mine, that's for sure. But he's a good interviewer and he's done a lot to give detransitioners a voice in particular and I think that's valuable even if we disagree on some fundamentals.
Of course; and that point was discussed in the video (aligning with people and groups who might differ in all ways except this one issue), so I get it. And I generally don't reject anybody out of hand based on how they arrived at their viewpoints, but try to just be conscious of all things contributing to a discussion - each person's viewpoint, the subtleties of their arguments, their backgrounds, and other bits of context that can inform me of the whole picture. It's why I'm of a gender-critical mindset, I think (because I take it all in and think "What makes sense here? What is fair?"); also why I can have (or try to have) reasonable conversations with virulent racists - I take a "where is this person coming from?" attitude.
That said, I still do wonder if coming at this from a religiously philosophical place alters certain specific aspects of their approach, and in what way. But I reserve judgment until I see something obviously "bad" happening.
Keep on going with your great work!
Thank you for that. It was clearly pretty stressful being in the lion's den. Hope you can take some time to unwind after it all.
I caught covid there, too, so not so much!
Elizabeth, listening to your conversation with Mr Boyce about WPATH and its pernicious ideology and actions, brings to mind another woman, the actress Leah Remini and her battle/struggle with Scientology. You and she have a lot in common.
Here's the youtube video with the typical scenario for the wife at Ute Heggen YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24d56qtFYiM