Thanks for a fairly detailed and in-depth response, much of which I agree entirely with 🙂.
Particularly your closing:
"Nonetheless it is the more extreme manifestations that tend to shed light on the underlying causes of these phenomena."
Reminds me of Konrad Lorenz' "Civilized Man's Eight Deadly Sins" -- highly recommended, BTW -- particularly where he notes that:
"The analysis of the organic system underlying the social behaviour of man is the most difficult and ambitious task that the scientist can set himself, for this system is by far the most complex on earth. .... Far from being an insurmountable obstacle to the analysis of an organic system, a pathological disorder is often key to understanding it. We know of many cases in the history of physiology where a scientist became aware of an important organic system only after a pathological disturbance had caused its disease. [pg. 2]"
Hard not to see much if not all of transgenderism as a rather serious "pathological disorder" of far reaching consequence. Maybe moot exactly what is the corresponding "organic system" but I've often argued that it is the one that undergirds how we all develop our senses of self.
And, part and parcel of which is imprinting, a fairly durable psychological concept on which Lorenz also had some cogent observations:
"Lorenz demonstrated how incubator-hatched geese would imprint on the first suitable moving stimulus they saw within what he called a 'critical period' between 13 and 16 hours shortly after hatching. For example, the goslings would imprint on Lorenz himself (to be more specific, on his wading boots), and he is often depicted being followed by a gaggle of geese who had imprinted on him."
You might also be interested in Woody Allen's Zelig - "The Chameleon Man" - as an amusing illustration of how people pickup and "ape" the behaviours of those around them. A very human thing to do but it also has some serious pathological manifestations:
Nicole: "What is the difference, really, between surgery to reshape labia and to create labia?"
Good question, though I think there's a rather profound difference there. For example, a world of difference between a woman trying to look more sexually attractive -- AS a woman, as an adult human female -- and a transwoman -- i.e., a male transvestite if he still has his nuts, or a sexless eunuch if he doesn't -- trying to LOOK like a female. The former isn't trying to hide her membership in the category "female" -- maybe trying to enhance it, in fact -- while the latter is basically perpetrating a fraud by trying to claim membership in a category which he won't ever be able to "pay" the membership dues for.
Seem to recollect a recent case of a transwoman who married a guy without telling him which wound up in court when he wondered why "she" wasn't able to get pregnant. And transwoman (?) Blaire White had a video or two about transwomen tricking guys into having sex with them without telling the guy of their "status" as such -- rather unhealthy at least, probably why some transwomen, rather sadly, wind up getting murdered:
Thanks for a fairly detailed and in-depth response, much of which I agree entirely with 🙂.
Particularly your closing:
"Nonetheless it is the more extreme manifestations that tend to shed light on the underlying causes of these phenomena."
Reminds me of Konrad Lorenz' "Civilized Man's Eight Deadly Sins" -- highly recommended, BTW -- particularly where he notes that:
"The analysis of the organic system underlying the social behaviour of man is the most difficult and ambitious task that the scientist can set himself, for this system is by far the most complex on earth. .... Far from being an insurmountable obstacle to the analysis of an organic system, a pathological disorder is often key to understanding it. We know of many cases in the history of physiology where a scientist became aware of an important organic system only after a pathological disturbance had caused its disease. [pg. 2]"
Hard not to see much if not all of transgenderism as a rather serious "pathological disorder" of far reaching consequence. Maybe moot exactly what is the corresponding "organic system" but I've often argued that it is the one that undergirds how we all develop our senses of self.
And, part and parcel of which is imprinting, a fairly durable psychological concept on which Lorenz also had some cogent observations:
"Lorenz demonstrated how incubator-hatched geese would imprint on the first suitable moving stimulus they saw within what he called a 'critical period' between 13 and 16 hours shortly after hatching. For example, the goslings would imprint on Lorenz himself (to be more specific, on his wading boots), and he is often depicted being followed by a gaggle of geese who had imprinted on him."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)
You might also be interested in Woody Allen's Zelig - "The Chameleon Man" - as an amusing illustration of how people pickup and "ape" the behaviours of those around them. A very human thing to do but it also has some serious pathological manifestations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUW8JsLDsNo
Nicole: "What is the difference, really, between surgery to reshape labia and to create labia?"
Good question, though I think there's a rather profound difference there. For example, a world of difference between a woman trying to look more sexually attractive -- AS a woman, as an adult human female -- and a transwoman -- i.e., a male transvestite if he still has his nuts, or a sexless eunuch if he doesn't -- trying to LOOK like a female. The former isn't trying to hide her membership in the category "female" -- maybe trying to enhance it, in fact -- while the latter is basically perpetrating a fraud by trying to claim membership in a category which he won't ever be able to "pay" the membership dues for.
Seem to recollect a recent case of a transwoman who married a guy without telling him which wound up in court when he wondered why "she" wasn't able to get pregnant. And transwoman (?) Blaire White had a video or two about transwomen tricking guys into having sex with them without telling the guy of their "status" as such -- rather unhealthy at least, probably why some transwomen, rather sadly, wind up getting murdered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wve1coCbSNw
Seems to be something of an important "qualitative difference" there.