I have some things to say about that, given that I am gay.
We gays secured our rights on the basis of our identities -- i.e., the principle that people should not be discriminated against for something that they ARE and can't change. Trans people are using the same principle. But here's the problem: When a gay man says he is attracted …
I have some things to say about that, given that I am gay.
We gays secured our rights on the basis of our identities -- i.e., the principle that people should not be discriminated against for something that they ARE and can't change. Trans people are using the same principle. But here's the problem: When a gay man says he is attracted to his own sex, no one can dispute it. Everyone knows that gays exist, and no one would admit to being gay who wasn't gay. But when a trans woman says, "I am a woman", which is what they are claiming these days, there is plenty of objective evidence to dispute that. I agree that a trans woman (who is actually a man) should not be discriminated against for the way he feels, but trans women are claiming to be REAL WOMEN (based on the concept of gender identity). But gender identity hasn't been proven. Trans people need to be treated differently by the courts from gay people because there is proof that they aren't what they say they are.
Thus, I think trans people should be protected in housing, employment and public accommodations (because there is no good reason to discriminate against them in those areas), but their gender identity (which is nothing more than a feeling) should not give them entry into women's spaces BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WOMEN.
Now, getting them to stop influencing children will be harder because they have that right. I think the solution there is to have a national law forbidding gender transitioning by children.
Perhaps one reason gay rights and trans rights have been conflated is because both identities have been based on a feeling (sexual attraction and gender identity). That’s why it’s so important, in my mind, that we work to disentangle those two feelings. Both use the concept of self-acceptance, but one is intended as a way for living *as one is* and the other promotes *mutilating healthy bodies*--the latter is about as far from self-acceptance as is possible to go.
I agree, except for the part about no one admitting to being gay who isn’t gay. For today’s youth I think that’s no longer true, and it’s always been less true for girls than for boys. When my friend’s daughter was in high school 8 years ago, she talked about all the girls who were claiming to be bisexual even though they clearly weren’t. But they felt it would make them more attractive to boys and make them seem sophisticated. In my daughter’s 6 grade class, 6 years ago, she claimed to be bisexual. This is a kid who didn’t go through puberty until she was a freshman in high school, so at that point she wasn’t sexually attracted to anyone yet. Nearly half of that class (of gifted kids, no surprise) claimed to be gay.
Interesting, Dee. That just confirms my impression of kids as being given to trends. Being trans, of course, is now a trend. Among the boys, however, I doubt many of them pretended to be gay who weren't. Remember, this was the "South Park" generation. They used the word "gay" to mean "stupid".
As a gay man, I have to be honest about not fully understanding girls and women. They want to be in a relationship as intently as the boys/men do, yet they seem to be less focussed on sex, which is a central part of relationships. I ascribe this to animal instinct, as in, the instinct of the male is to impregnate, while the instinct of the female is to insure her mate has good genes. Another way of saying this is that women are more interested in romance, while men are more interested in sex. Do you think that's accurate, or are those simply steretypes?
I am unfortunately all too aware that trans is a trend since the same daughter who claimed to be bisexual in sixth grade is now 17 and thinks she’s a gay boy (the fact that she’s actually attracted to males, i.e. not gay by any definition that makes sense to my generation, became too clear for her to deny as she got older so she had to find another way to secure her membership in the gay community, which she desperately wants to belong to). As far as I can tell it’s the boys too. This really isn’t the South Park generation - I don’t think my kids even know what that is. We’re talking about kids who are in high school now, and they have dramatically different views than people who are now approaching their 30s. While it’s great that gay kids don’t feel the need to stifle and hide themselves anymore, a whole new set of problems has cropped up. I am watching this happen and am completely floored by the fact that a movement intended to prevent kids from having to pretend to be something they aren’t in order to fit in seems to have led to my daughter trying to pretend to be something she’s not in order to fit in. My head is spinning.
As for your other question - I think that many women do have high sex drives, but yes, there are likely some evolutionary differences in how that gets expressed. Teasing out what’s a biological difference and what’s influenced by culture is hard. It seems women may be more selective about partners and less likely to engage in casual short term relationships, and that those who do engage in casual sex do so because they believe themselves to be too low status to secure a good long term relationship so this is a second best reproductive strategy. It seems likely that the driving evolutionary force behind men’s sex drive is to impregnate as many females as possible, while the evolutionary force behind women’s sex drive is to secure a relationship with a male who will stay and be a good father. So I can imagine that would drive some different behaviors, although I don’t necessarily think women (at least young women) have lower sex drives. Anyhow, this is all just speculation, I am no expert on this topic.
I enjoyed reading your follow-up comment. You are clearly very thoughtful. I'm not sure I've got anything to say, except that being a kid has become more complicated.
It sounds like your daughter has decided that her "gender identity" is male, but you don't mention that she has done anything to transition. I hope she doesn't. The more I read about it, the clearer it is that transitioning (meaning going the whole medical route) is a nightmare. There is also something puzzling about it. People who transition apparently believe in the fiction that they will end up with the body of the opposite sex, but of course, they don't. I remember reading one young woman, who was transitioning to a male, say that she was thrilled to learn that she would be given a big penis. Of course, what they give trans men is just a sausage-shape piece of fat with skin on it (or, at least, that is my impression after looking at some pictures). They probably snake the urethra through it, though that would involve taking a urethra from someone else (a donated corpse?) because a woman's urethra would not be long enough. Such an artificial penis could not change its state from soft to erect, nor could it eject sperm. The point is, it's all fake. Trans people talk about being their "authentic selves", but their bodies are anything but authentic.
Anyway, I hope your daughter gets through all this without damaging herself.
I have some things to say about that, given that I am gay.
We gays secured our rights on the basis of our identities -- i.e., the principle that people should not be discriminated against for something that they ARE and can't change. Trans people are using the same principle. But here's the problem: When a gay man says he is attracted to his own sex, no one can dispute it. Everyone knows that gays exist, and no one would admit to being gay who wasn't gay. But when a trans woman says, "I am a woman", which is what they are claiming these days, there is plenty of objective evidence to dispute that. I agree that a trans woman (who is actually a man) should not be discriminated against for the way he feels, but trans women are claiming to be REAL WOMEN (based on the concept of gender identity). But gender identity hasn't been proven. Trans people need to be treated differently by the courts from gay people because there is proof that they aren't what they say they are.
Thus, I think trans people should be protected in housing, employment and public accommodations (because there is no good reason to discriminate against them in those areas), but their gender identity (which is nothing more than a feeling) should not give them entry into women's spaces BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WOMEN.
Now, getting them to stop influencing children will be harder because they have that right. I think the solution there is to have a national law forbidding gender transitioning by children.
Perhaps one reason gay rights and trans rights have been conflated is because both identities have been based on a feeling (sexual attraction and gender identity). That’s why it’s so important, in my mind, that we work to disentangle those two feelings. Both use the concept of self-acceptance, but one is intended as a way for living *as one is* and the other promotes *mutilating healthy bodies*--the latter is about as far from self-acceptance as is possible to go.
I agree completely.
I agree, except for the part about no one admitting to being gay who isn’t gay. For today’s youth I think that’s no longer true, and it’s always been less true for girls than for boys. When my friend’s daughter was in high school 8 years ago, she talked about all the girls who were claiming to be bisexual even though they clearly weren’t. But they felt it would make them more attractive to boys and make them seem sophisticated. In my daughter’s 6 grade class, 6 years ago, she claimed to be bisexual. This is a kid who didn’t go through puberty until she was a freshman in high school, so at that point she wasn’t sexually attracted to anyone yet. Nearly half of that class (of gifted kids, no surprise) claimed to be gay.
Interesting, Dee. That just confirms my impression of kids as being given to trends. Being trans, of course, is now a trend. Among the boys, however, I doubt many of them pretended to be gay who weren't. Remember, this was the "South Park" generation. They used the word "gay" to mean "stupid".
As a gay man, I have to be honest about not fully understanding girls and women. They want to be in a relationship as intently as the boys/men do, yet they seem to be less focussed on sex, which is a central part of relationships. I ascribe this to animal instinct, as in, the instinct of the male is to impregnate, while the instinct of the female is to insure her mate has good genes. Another way of saying this is that women are more interested in romance, while men are more interested in sex. Do you think that's accurate, or are those simply steretypes?
I am unfortunately all too aware that trans is a trend since the same daughter who claimed to be bisexual in sixth grade is now 17 and thinks she’s a gay boy (the fact that she’s actually attracted to males, i.e. not gay by any definition that makes sense to my generation, became too clear for her to deny as she got older so she had to find another way to secure her membership in the gay community, which she desperately wants to belong to). As far as I can tell it’s the boys too. This really isn’t the South Park generation - I don’t think my kids even know what that is. We’re talking about kids who are in high school now, and they have dramatically different views than people who are now approaching their 30s. While it’s great that gay kids don’t feel the need to stifle and hide themselves anymore, a whole new set of problems has cropped up. I am watching this happen and am completely floored by the fact that a movement intended to prevent kids from having to pretend to be something they aren’t in order to fit in seems to have led to my daughter trying to pretend to be something she’s not in order to fit in. My head is spinning.
As for your other question - I think that many women do have high sex drives, but yes, there are likely some evolutionary differences in how that gets expressed. Teasing out what’s a biological difference and what’s influenced by culture is hard. It seems women may be more selective about partners and less likely to engage in casual short term relationships, and that those who do engage in casual sex do so because they believe themselves to be too low status to secure a good long term relationship so this is a second best reproductive strategy. It seems likely that the driving evolutionary force behind men’s sex drive is to impregnate as many females as possible, while the evolutionary force behind women’s sex drive is to secure a relationship with a male who will stay and be a good father. So I can imagine that would drive some different behaviors, although I don’t necessarily think women (at least young women) have lower sex drives. Anyhow, this is all just speculation, I am no expert on this topic.
I enjoyed reading your follow-up comment. You are clearly very thoughtful. I'm not sure I've got anything to say, except that being a kid has become more complicated.
It sounds like your daughter has decided that her "gender identity" is male, but you don't mention that she has done anything to transition. I hope she doesn't. The more I read about it, the clearer it is that transitioning (meaning going the whole medical route) is a nightmare. There is also something puzzling about it. People who transition apparently believe in the fiction that they will end up with the body of the opposite sex, but of course, they don't. I remember reading one young woman, who was transitioning to a male, say that she was thrilled to learn that she would be given a big penis. Of course, what they give trans men is just a sausage-shape piece of fat with skin on it (or, at least, that is my impression after looking at some pictures). They probably snake the urethra through it, though that would involve taking a urethra from someone else (a donated corpse?) because a woman's urethra would not be long enough. Such an artificial penis could not change its state from soft to erect, nor could it eject sperm. The point is, it's all fake. Trans people talk about being their "authentic selves", but their bodies are anything but authentic.
Anyway, I hope your daughter gets through all this without damaging herself.