Fascinating and insightful thread on r/detrans: When did you start to deprogram ? For those of you who have, when did you realize gender ideology wasn’t real and that you were transitioning to change the physical based on theory? For me it was gradual, but it all started when
This woman must be at least in her late 30s. It has taken a long time for her to realise the lies she has been told. Perhaps others are going to take that long, and we are going to see another wave of detransitioners in 20 years' time.
I agree. These bolded passages tell me is that connection to one's own body is key to self acceptance as you are. This idea that one can be other than ones own body is a fools errand and each of these people are slowly realizing it. Life is a long haul. I doubt that one could stay in this dissociated state for a lifetime.
Sorry to hear this. Consider visiting my YouTube channel, Ute Heggen, and learning the easy movements for wellness, connectedness and relief for an overstimulated vagus nerve. Here's a link to a short clip:
Amazing snippets, just sent it to a 19yr old lesbian friend that's got a gofundme to get her breasts cut off. I'll not stop sending her things that might get through...
"Understanding that we sometimes create identities to cover the truth because it’s too painful was something I needed to learn."
This is such an important point and it's not only true for a trans identity. If we're using an identity ("I'm a good person") to shield us from something we find unacceptable ("I make mistakes" or "I'm capable of harm"), we'll go to great lengths to protect that identity.
I think it's very common. I know I used to wear an identity that was built by the male gaze, to please men because my mother and society taught me that getting attention from men was the only important thing in life. Thankfully the wool from my eyes dropped after an abusive marriage, which unravelled my abusive childhood with CSA / abusive parents and I finally found me underneath. Took me till 36/37 to start crawling out of it. I look back to the old me and I just want to hug her. When I see over sexualised young women now, I want to throw them a cosy blanket and tell them they don't need all that slap, they're still worthy, valuable women. It's so sad.
I think it's very common too. I experienced something similar in terms of needing validation from men and my mother, then waking up to the reality of my past while in an abusive relationship. It also took me until my 30's to start seeing things more clearly and cultivating a healthier more loving relationship with myself. I agree we need people in our lives to challenge the lie that we're only valuable so long as we're meeting expectations.
I didn't have anyone challenge me (or the lie), as far as I could tell everyone wanted me to keep being that way. It was a road I walked alone as everything fell apart, back to myself. I actually realised that I wasn't always like that, it started when I was 16 and discovered goth. That's when the over sexualised chaos began. Before that I was more creative, colourful and comfortable with my dress sense - more me. So glad I came back to it!
I can imagine our stories are incredibly common when you look at how women are groomed to be sex objects by everything in the media and society. It frightens the hell out of me for my teenage nieces on tiktok and instagram. One has been wearing fake eyelashes and long claw nails since she was 13!
This is why I think it's so deeply important that there can't be a 'everything is fine once they're 18' for transitioning. It takes decades to figure your shit out damn it! Breaks my heart.
I'm glad you came back to it too. That's hard to do.
I hear you about how scary it is for young girls and that yeah, it takes decades to figure shit out. "Give yourself time" is not really reinforced in our culture, is it?
I just discovered Jonathan Streeter's YouTube channel, Thoughts on Things and Stuff, with the series of interviews of Michelle Alleva, re-identified woman (detransitioner). Michelle considers each of Streeter's detailed considerations of "is it culty?" Cross-sex ideology is very, very cultlike, as revealed in the detransitioner here. I devote most of my YouTube channel, Ute Heggen, to mind/body moves, accessible to any able-bodied person, in hopes that the vagus nerve connections, the relation of overstimulation of the brain to torso nerve this is, will be explored by mental health practitioners as a first step in patients with body dissociation. I saw my then husband get sicker and sicker, emotionally and mentally, when he went down this rabbit hole 30 years ago. The only thing that's changed is the tsunami of dissociation funded by the drug corporations, paying "educators" to teach little chlldren how fun and entertaining it is to pretend to be someone else.
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods, True Tales from a Grass Widow (iuniverse, 2022)
I was never trans but I have had many friends identify as trans / nb. I really liked what you said on Benjamin Boyce that it was one thing in passing to just support it without truly getting it -- and another to see someone medicalize up close. This happened to me and it’s been sad to lose friends - or at least be more distant bc of it. I keep telling myself that when they realize I’ll be there for them, but until then it’s very frustrating.
You said something like “when there’s a loose thread it just keeps unraveling” -- for me it was pretty quick. I think just learning the stats that 85% of kids that experience gender dysphoria outgrow it in puberty was enough for me (also combined the fact that I didn’t realize they were actually transitioning children) -- learning about ray Blanchards typology and ROGD also provided a lot of context and understanding to the people I have known within this. I think I was pretty confused by some behaviors for some years prior but just didn’t question it as connected.
Many forms of self-harm are glorified for females, whether it's surgical procedures, overly restrictive clothing that leaves welts on the body, or staying in abusive relationships.
Probably a bit too late to the party with my comment, but anyway my 2ps worth...
The main thing that occurred to me reading these experiences if how fragile the trans identity is. Not as in vulnerable - but brittle, insecure. Easily taken down by logic, therefore all attempts at logic must be fiercely resisted.
I've always wondered why the activist response to polite and reasonably-argued views about the dangers of self-id and affirming-only care (eg. JKR!) are so aggressive, abusive even. Now it suddenly makes sense - the more polite and reasonable, the worse it is - more persuasive, and the greater the threat to your "identity".
This is the hope I needed this morning thank you.
This woman must be at least in her late 30s. It has taken a long time for her to realise the lies she has been told. Perhaps others are going to take that long, and we are going to see another wave of detransitioners in 20 years' time.
I agree. These bolded passages tell me is that connection to one's own body is key to self acceptance as you are. This idea that one can be other than ones own body is a fools errand and each of these people are slowly realizing it. Life is a long haul. I doubt that one could stay in this dissociated state for a lifetime.
I hope you're right as my daughter has been three years in
Sorry that she is wrapped up in this. :-(
Sorry to hear this. Consider visiting my YouTube channel, Ute Heggen, and learning the easy movements for wellness, connectedness and relief for an overstimulated vagus nerve. Here's a link to a short clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b_PVWY9wY&t=9s
We are seeing a big wave of detransitioners now. They are starting to sue gender clinics. Chole Cole is one of the first detransitioners to sue her doctors. https://open.substack.com/pub/justingaffneysamuels/p/chloe-cole-detransitioner-sues-doctors?r=6512g&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank you for the great read... it was enlightening.... this all makes me sad...
https://everythingisbiology.substack.com/p/beauty-pageants-rarely-make-me-sad
...hopefully, things will change sooner rather than later.
Amazing snippets, just sent it to a 19yr old lesbian friend that's got a gofundme to get her breasts cut off. I'll not stop sending her things that might get through...
"Understanding that we sometimes create identities to cover the truth because it’s too painful was something I needed to learn."
This is such an important point and it's not only true for a trans identity. If we're using an identity ("I'm a good person") to shield us from something we find unacceptable ("I make mistakes" or "I'm capable of harm"), we'll go to great lengths to protect that identity.
I think it's very common. I know I used to wear an identity that was built by the male gaze, to please men because my mother and society taught me that getting attention from men was the only important thing in life. Thankfully the wool from my eyes dropped after an abusive marriage, which unravelled my abusive childhood with CSA / abusive parents and I finally found me underneath. Took me till 36/37 to start crawling out of it. I look back to the old me and I just want to hug her. When I see over sexualised young women now, I want to throw them a cosy blanket and tell them they don't need all that slap, they're still worthy, valuable women. It's so sad.
I think it's very common too. I experienced something similar in terms of needing validation from men and my mother, then waking up to the reality of my past while in an abusive relationship. It also took me until my 30's to start seeing things more clearly and cultivating a healthier more loving relationship with myself. I agree we need people in our lives to challenge the lie that we're only valuable so long as we're meeting expectations.
Thanks for sharing too.
I didn't have anyone challenge me (or the lie), as far as I could tell everyone wanted me to keep being that way. It was a road I walked alone as everything fell apart, back to myself. I actually realised that I wasn't always like that, it started when I was 16 and discovered goth. That's when the over sexualised chaos began. Before that I was more creative, colourful and comfortable with my dress sense - more me. So glad I came back to it!
I can imagine our stories are incredibly common when you look at how women are groomed to be sex objects by everything in the media and society. It frightens the hell out of me for my teenage nieces on tiktok and instagram. One has been wearing fake eyelashes and long claw nails since she was 13!
This is why I think it's so deeply important that there can't be a 'everything is fine once they're 18' for transitioning. It takes decades to figure your shit out damn it! Breaks my heart.
I'm glad you came back to it too. That's hard to do.
I hear you about how scary it is for young girls and that yeah, it takes decades to figure shit out. "Give yourself time" is not really reinforced in our culture, is it?
It's not these days with social media. I remember being told stop trying to grow up so fast as a kid, that I'd regret it. It's so different now.
I just discovered Jonathan Streeter's YouTube channel, Thoughts on Things and Stuff, with the series of interviews of Michelle Alleva, re-identified woman (detransitioner). Michelle considers each of Streeter's detailed considerations of "is it culty?" Cross-sex ideology is very, very cultlike, as revealed in the detransitioner here. I devote most of my YouTube channel, Ute Heggen, to mind/body moves, accessible to any able-bodied person, in hopes that the vagus nerve connections, the relation of overstimulation of the brain to torso nerve this is, will be explored by mental health practitioners as a first step in patients with body dissociation. I saw my then husband get sicker and sicker, emotionally and mentally, when he went down this rabbit hole 30 years ago. The only thing that's changed is the tsunami of dissociation funded by the drug corporations, paying "educators" to teach little chlldren how fun and entertaining it is to pretend to be someone else.
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods, True Tales from a Grass Widow (iuniverse, 2022)
I was never trans but I have had many friends identify as trans / nb. I really liked what you said on Benjamin Boyce that it was one thing in passing to just support it without truly getting it -- and another to see someone medicalize up close. This happened to me and it’s been sad to lose friends - or at least be more distant bc of it. I keep telling myself that when they realize I’ll be there for them, but until then it’s very frustrating.
You said something like “when there’s a loose thread it just keeps unraveling” -- for me it was pretty quick. I think just learning the stats that 85% of kids that experience gender dysphoria outgrow it in puberty was enough for me (also combined the fact that I didn’t realize they were actually transitioning children) -- learning about ray Blanchards typology and ROGD also provided a lot of context and understanding to the people I have known within this. I think I was pretty confused by some behaviors for some years prior but just didn’t question it as connected.
This shows very importantly how people from all walks of life, at any age can be vulnerable to a cult.
Good point. Patriarchal cultures devalue vulnerability so we struggle to recognize and accept our own vulnerability.
Very true. Self harm is reframed as heroic victimhood.
Many forms of self-harm are glorified for females, whether it's surgical procedures, overly restrictive clothing that leaves welts on the body, or staying in abusive relationships.
Probably a bit too late to the party with my comment, but anyway my 2ps worth...
The main thing that occurred to me reading these experiences if how fragile the trans identity is. Not as in vulnerable - but brittle, insecure. Easily taken down by logic, therefore all attempts at logic must be fiercely resisted.
I've always wondered why the activist response to polite and reasonably-argued views about the dangers of self-id and affirming-only care (eg. JKR!) are so aggressive, abusive even. Now it suddenly makes sense - the more polite and reasonable, the worse it is - more persuasive, and the greater the threat to your "identity".