"...it takes extreme circumstances for someone to follow through on a non-genuine impulse to transition..,Like some combo of very specific mental illness/neurodivergence, PLUS nonexistent internal coping tools and self-awareness, PLUS a past trauma or current social setting that somehow makes transition seem safer."
This was maddening to read. Doesn't this person see that this is EXACTLY the combo we are seeing in the thousands of teenage girls and young women we are so worried about and trying to protect??
- A very specific mental illness? Oh, you mean like borderline personality disorder, which has a core feature of unstable and shifting identity? Or an eating disorder focused on hating and controlling the features of the female body? Or a depression so severe you would do anything to escape and be someone else? You mean all those comorbidities the "terfs" have been telling you we need to consider?
- Neurodivergence? Again, haven't we been telling people like this commenter how neurodivergence is a major factor??
- Non-existent coping tools and self-awareness? Check and check. These are EXACTLY what our girls are struggling with. It's why they are struggling so much socially and emotionally and become so vulnerable to these ideas. It's why we sought out therapy for them: to develop coping skills and self-awareness (instead we found therapy had become ideology and endless empty "validation")
- Trauma? A current social setting that makes transition seem safer? This is LITERALLY what we have been saying about these girls.
This commenter needs to realize just how not rare this combo is and stop fighting the people trying to protect these girls she admits could wrongly believe they should transition.
"Even people who seek safety in ways that make no rational sense to a random observer always have very real personal reasons for doing as they do. People with schizophrenia who jump out windows do that to escape the monster they see chasing them. "
Interesting analogy, I wonder how she would cope with this being taken to its logical conclusion i.e. is 'please don't jump out the window' something that could only be motivated by bigotry and hatred?
Certainly, people always have a reason for the things they do. Does this mean the things they do are always right? Is the schizophrenic who jumps out a window right to do so, and should we just let it happen because - well, it will keep her away from the monsters?!
And aren't these girls opting out of womanhood and mutilating their bodies to look like men because they are chasing away "monsters?" Aren't those monsters everything they believe will be bad about living as a woman? My own daughter recently said to me that the idea of going out without a binder "makes her crawl out of her skin." This is either proof that she is "trans" (what she and the author of that piece would say), or proof that she is having an irrational reaction to the idea of herself as a woman, and has been convincing herself every day for 5 years that she is not, or should not be, a woman. I am betting it's the latter.
And isn't it an extreme cult-like environment when everywhere a teenage girl turns, she sees the message that transition is right for her? Isn't it pretty extreme when the sweet president of the United State, Joe Biden, gives speeches telling parents they have to "affirm" their children to keep them safe and healthy? Isn't it extreme that the message of "trans" being the answer and the way to reach one's "true authentic self" comes from these girls' (and boys') caring teachers at school, from their friends and their friends' "affirming" parents, from therapists, and from doctors? In fact, isn't society creating one big, unassailable cult - difficult for anyone, including a concerned parent, to challenge because it is supported by government, corporate America, Big Pharma, the Entertainment industry, our School and University systems, and even our legal system (although there is push-back now)? I've never heard of such an extreme cult-like movement!
In short, I agree with this person that it would take a pretty extreme set of circumstances to make so many young people think they have to medically alter their bodies with dangerous chemicals and surgeries to appear the opposite sex. However, unlike this person, I believe we are living that extreme set of circumstances.
My daughter gave me that line a couple years ago when we found out she was identifying as trans. she said why would anyone choose this? and it sounded canned. it didn't sound like my kid. A little while later I was watching a YouTube debate. It was moms whose kids said they were trans--affirming and non affirming... the mom who affirmed her child's gender specifically pointed at that same sentence her own child uttered and that was what sealed the deal for her. her daughter said, why would anyone choose this? and with that she was convinced. what a world. Someone needs to Substack about the subreddit those moms post in.
Lisa Selin Davis replied to me the other day that the spread of AGP in the tech industry needs investigating (and it's still suppressed). So does in these video gaming and anime communities (which I have been a part of for decades).
The idea of an impulse being "genuine" or not strikes me as odd. Impulses are impulses, and what makes them genuine, in a sense, is whether they're acted upon.
This all got so much clearer to me when I stopped believing in any such thing as "really trans." It's something that people do, a set of behaviors, not a knowable inner state. That's why it's un-misdiagnoseable: if you do it, or even think it, you are it; if you stop, you never really were.
"Why would anyone choose this?" seems like how one would plead with a deeply homophobic parent, so it's no wonder it's been borrowed and redeployed like so many other superficial similarities with the gay experience. But people choose to do self-destructive, harmful things all the time. The orthorexic chooses the restrictive diet and exercise regimen, the cutter chooses the blade. People do all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. Emotions precede thought processes in our human brains--we feel, and reason after.
I wonder why (in my observations, no hard data) there is much less self-doubt posts on the MTF reddit sites. Is it because estrogen doesn't act as quickly and devastatingly on the male bodies as testosterone on females? Is it because males in general are more sure of themselves? Is it because expressing doubt is much more of a "crime" in male spaces and they would get judged harsher by their peers? Certainly, it's not because any of them are "real trans".
I certainly don't have your level of insight and knowledge of the subject, Eliza. It is quite possible that I have my own biases and notice it less in male spaces. When I look it seems like men are more suspicious of those around them (are they secretly TERFs? Do they see me as a woman that I am?) and women are more doubtful of themselves (am I really a man?). I could be totally wrong though. Oh, and I am having trouble with substack and cannot "like" your or anybody else's comments for some reason :(
I would say both groups have the same questions, internal and external. I'd be a wealthy woman if I had a penny for every time a man is saying: Am I really a woman?
It's instructive to remove supporting clauses in sentences. One result is, "mentally ill ... people ... are the most insightful and self aware people I know."
There are so many examples of humans acting against their rational self interest that it is ludicrous to make the central claim the article critiques. Gambling, alcoholism, drug addiction - not to mention all the documented psychological phenomena like cognitive dissonance etc. They all have one thing in common, they allow short term relief of anxieties and discomfort in exchange for a far greater cost later.
The main difference with these is the medical and para professions try to divert sufferers back on the road - except this one.
"...it takes extreme circumstances for someone to follow through on a non-genuine impulse to transition..,Like some combo of very specific mental illness/neurodivergence, PLUS nonexistent internal coping tools and self-awareness, PLUS a past trauma or current social setting that somehow makes transition seem safer."
This was maddening to read. Doesn't this person see that this is EXACTLY the combo we are seeing in the thousands of teenage girls and young women we are so worried about and trying to protect??
- A very specific mental illness? Oh, you mean like borderline personality disorder, which has a core feature of unstable and shifting identity? Or an eating disorder focused on hating and controlling the features of the female body? Or a depression so severe you would do anything to escape and be someone else? You mean all those comorbidities the "terfs" have been telling you we need to consider?
- Neurodivergence? Again, haven't we been telling people like this commenter how neurodivergence is a major factor??
- Non-existent coping tools and self-awareness? Check and check. These are EXACTLY what our girls are struggling with. It's why they are struggling so much socially and emotionally and become so vulnerable to these ideas. It's why we sought out therapy for them: to develop coping skills and self-awareness (instead we found therapy had become ideology and endless empty "validation")
- Trauma? A current social setting that makes transition seem safer? This is LITERALLY what we have been saying about these girls.
This commenter needs to realize just how not rare this combo is and stop fighting the people trying to protect these girls she admits could wrongly believe they should transition.
"Even people who seek safety in ways that make no rational sense to a random observer always have very real personal reasons for doing as they do. People with schizophrenia who jump out windows do that to escape the monster they see chasing them. "
Interesting analogy, I wonder how she would cope with this being taken to its logical conclusion i.e. is 'please don't jump out the window' something that could only be motivated by bigotry and hatred?
“People jumping out of windows to get away from demons? TOTALLY VALID!”
Certainly, people always have a reason for the things they do. Does this mean the things they do are always right? Is the schizophrenic who jumps out a window right to do so, and should we just let it happen because - well, it will keep her away from the monsters?!
And aren't these girls opting out of womanhood and mutilating their bodies to look like men because they are chasing away "monsters?" Aren't those monsters everything they believe will be bad about living as a woman? My own daughter recently said to me that the idea of going out without a binder "makes her crawl out of her skin." This is either proof that she is "trans" (what she and the author of that piece would say), or proof that she is having an irrational reaction to the idea of herself as a woman, and has been convincing herself every day for 5 years that she is not, or should not be, a woman. I am betting it's the latter.
And isn't it an extreme cult-like environment when everywhere a teenage girl turns, she sees the message that transition is right for her? Isn't it pretty extreme when the sweet president of the United State, Joe Biden, gives speeches telling parents they have to "affirm" their children to keep them safe and healthy? Isn't it extreme that the message of "trans" being the answer and the way to reach one's "true authentic self" comes from these girls' (and boys') caring teachers at school, from their friends and their friends' "affirming" parents, from therapists, and from doctors? In fact, isn't society creating one big, unassailable cult - difficult for anyone, including a concerned parent, to challenge because it is supported by government, corporate America, Big Pharma, the Entertainment industry, our School and University systems, and even our legal system (although there is push-back now)? I've never heard of such an extreme cult-like movement!
In short, I agree with this person that it would take a pretty extreme set of circumstances to make so many young people think they have to medically alter their bodies with dangerous chemicals and surgeries to appear the opposite sex. However, unlike this person, I believe we are living that extreme set of circumstances.
My daughter gave me that line a couple years ago when we found out she was identifying as trans. she said why would anyone choose this? and it sounded canned. it didn't sound like my kid. A little while later I was watching a YouTube debate. It was moms whose kids said they were trans--affirming and non affirming... the mom who affirmed her child's gender specifically pointed at that same sentence her own child uttered and that was what sealed the deal for her. her daughter said, why would anyone choose this? and with that she was convinced. what a world. Someone needs to Substack about the subreddit those moms post in.
"Yet another video-game metaphor, you’ll notice".
Lisa Selin Davis replied to me the other day that the spread of AGP in the tech industry needs investigating (and it's still suppressed). So does in these video gaming and anime communities (which I have been a part of for decades).
The idea of an impulse being "genuine" or not strikes me as odd. Impulses are impulses, and what makes them genuine, in a sense, is whether they're acted upon.
This all got so much clearer to me when I stopped believing in any such thing as "really trans." It's something that people do, a set of behaviors, not a knowable inner state. That's why it's un-misdiagnoseable: if you do it, or even think it, you are it; if you stop, you never really were.
"Why would anyone choose this?" seems like how one would plead with a deeply homophobic parent, so it's no wonder it's been borrowed and redeployed like so many other superficial similarities with the gay experience. But people choose to do self-destructive, harmful things all the time. The orthorexic chooses the restrictive diet and exercise regimen, the cutter chooses the blade. People do all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. Emotions precede thought processes in our human brains--we feel, and reason after.
I wonder why (in my observations, no hard data) there is much less self-doubt posts on the MTF reddit sites. Is it because estrogen doesn't act as quickly and devastatingly on the male bodies as testosterone on females? Is it because males in general are more sure of themselves? Is it because expressing doubt is much more of a "crime" in male spaces and they would get judged harsher by their peers? Certainly, it's not because any of them are "real trans".
I wouldn't say there's less doubt in MTF forums.
I certainly don't have your level of insight and knowledge of the subject, Eliza. It is quite possible that I have my own biases and notice it less in male spaces. When I look it seems like men are more suspicious of those around them (are they secretly TERFs? Do they see me as a woman that I am?) and women are more doubtful of themselves (am I really a man?). I could be totally wrong though. Oh, and I am having trouble with substack and cannot "like" your or anybody else's comments for some reason :(
I would say both groups have the same questions, internal and external. I'd be a wealthy woman if I had a penny for every time a man is saying: Am I really a woman?
It's instructive to remove supporting clauses in sentences. One result is, "mentally ill ... people ... are the most insightful and self aware people I know."
Eliza, are you writing a book about your research on Reddit or other forums? I hope so!
Brings to mind the Oedipus Trap: we don't harm for no reason, it was a *good* reason and actually it was good to do.
There are so many examples of humans acting against their rational self interest that it is ludicrous to make the central claim the article critiques. Gambling, alcoholism, drug addiction - not to mention all the documented psychological phenomena like cognitive dissonance etc. They all have one thing in common, they allow short term relief of anxieties and discomfort in exchange for a far greater cost later.
The main difference with these is the medical and para professions try to divert sufferers back on the road - except this one.
Excellent essay. Thank you.
Sunk cost fallacy
“Don’t just”
And that art is INCREDIBLE!!!