I’m working on a longer piece (for publication elsewhere) about the difficult position parents of trans-identified children (of any age) are in. If you are such a parent—whatever approach you have taken with regard to your child’s gender identity—and there’s a story or reflection you want to share about your experience that I could quote (anonymously) or summarize (if you would prefer not to be quoted), please email me at elizamondegreen@gmail.com. You may also respond here, if you prefer.
I don’t want to be overly prescriptive about what I’m looking for — I want to hear what parents have to say. But if you’re stuck on where to begin: what do you wish people understood about being the parent of a trans-identified kid? Where have you turned for support? How have you interacted with your pre-existing support networks? What experiences have you had with clinicians and therapists? What have you learned?
Thanks to all you who shared your stories with me. This isn’t the only piece I intend to write about parents. Down the road, when I have a little more breathing room in my schedule, I’d like to do some in-depth interviews (like this one). So this isn’t the last such request.
Hey there, I'm definitely interested in doing in-depth interviews on this in the not-so-distant future and would love to talk to you on Zoom then, but I need to get a little more breathing room in my schedule first. I'd be happy to reach out then if that's something you'd be interested in. For this week's piece/deadline, I'm hoping for emails.
Kaeley quite reasonably supports Walsh for his documentary, but likewise throws a few stones at him for his self-indulgent histrionics -- "how DARE you!!?"🙄 -- while he was being rather clueless about the differences between sex (biology) and genders (psychology).
As long as too many PITT parents refuse to even consider that dichotomy, so long will there be a question of "overplaying it".
These are individuals (all with different personalities) going through an incredibly damaging and difficult time. I’m sure there are a percentage of what you’re speaking of, but I don’t think it’s useful to “advise” the way you did in the first comment.
In terms of social graces, I find it rather rude the way you are approaching this in this context. Contrarian? Perhaps. I find people who excitedly stuff their contrarian thoughts atop the actual lived experiences of others are not trying to help, but more to show how they have a different opinion and how “good” they are for noticing this other perspective. Looking for a pat on their back. Good boy! You’ve corrected a possible flaw.
It makes me cringe. It feels childish. Of course, that is just my personal feeling.
this is a rare space where parents who have been through this can express themselves—so I avoid coming here with negative assumptions about those parents. Of course, everyone has their own perspective on these matters.
Don't think it is "just" a "matter of opinion". Or at least not just mine. You read that post of Kaeley Harms? This bit in particular?
KH: "[Walsh is] right that transgender ideology is a problem, but he is completely blind to the reality that it’s a problem that exists, in part, because of the regressive sex-role stereotypes he himself prescribes as the solution."
Seems that both Walsh and many of the PITT crowd are rather dogmatically attached to those "regressive sex-role stereotypes", largely because they apparently think that sex [AKA reproductive biology] and gender [personalities & personality types] are the same kettles of fish. Some reason to argue that they're only "victims" of being overly attached to untenable dogma and quite unscientific claptrap -- something of a self-inflicted wound. And thereby as much a part of the problem as of the solution.
As for "rude" and "lived experiences", not quite sure how being offended counts for a great deal. And "lived experiences" is also the mantra of the transloonie nutcases. Which really don't count for much either, particularly when the issue is some "grim meat hook realities", when the question is what it takes to qualify as male and female and the consequences of them.
And as for "negative assumptions about those parents", you might consider that one such parent -- Penny Adrian -- has liked several of my comments in this thread:
I'd have to dig through my files, but seem to recollect having a well-stuffed folder on the topic somewhere ... 😉🙂
Seriously though, not just me that has raised an eyebrow thereon. I certainly don't envy parents with dysphoric children, and my heart goes out to them in considering the grief they experience as a result. But while it is probably moot exactly how many of my "incident reports" justify that charge of "playing the victim", I can think of several cases offhand that might fill the bill. Though it will be hard to do justice to them on a smartphone -- may have to add citations and elaborations later 🙂.
But the one that first sprang to mind was a conversation I'd had with, I think, both a poster and commenter on PITT. She seemed quite dogmatically insistent that sex and gender were the same from which I got the impression -- have to check my files for confirmation -- that she was motivated more by "conversion therapy", outright grift, that "playing the victim", and "Munchausen by proxy".
Along the same line and probably the poster child on those particular "crimes" is Matt Walsh on whom Kaeley Harms at Honest To Goodness had a rather damning and quite brilliant post:
Link to my comment thereat which garnered a Like from her so I might be somewhat biased. 🙂
But I think she made a credible case against Walsh's "histrionics" and his dogmatic reluctance to draw a distinction between sex and gender. Part and parcel.
I geddit that parenting isn't an easy row to hoe. But, as with virtually every mode of human behaviour, it has its pathological manifestations. Which I think are in clear evidence on both sides of the issue.
Please email me. What I can tell you is well worth knowing. I am a parent in Minnesota. My story maybe different than others as I had no idea my ex was transitioning our minor child while she was Illegally withholding the child from my parental time with the child. I share co-legal, yet the state put themselves in the center of this issue, while hiding their intentions from me.
Navigating relationship with child (regardless of approach to their trans identity/transition), experiences with therapists/clinicians, how it affected relationships with friends/family
It will be cathartic to share our story with someone who is interested, thank you. So many friends honestly can’t believe what doctors tried to do when I tell them.
Before starting your research you should watch this short video. Helen dares to say the quiet part out loud. Keep this fact in your mind at all times especially when evaluating a person's honesty.
Helen Joyce says so many smart and well thought out things and there are many important moments in this interview. But, my sense is that there are parents who "supported" their children over the years, for various reasons and in differing, sometimes very difficult, circumstances - and who now reflect on and regret that, or parts of that, deeply. And some of them are not in some sort of permanent denial and do want to spread the word - the "gender critical" message - for the sake of others.
No disagreement there. There are parents honest enough to admit it was one big mistake. However, there are also many who can't. For example, Jazz Jenning's mother and other Munchausen by Proxy mothers who made money or gained notoriety off their trans children. Then you have the truly despicable psychologists, doctors, and surgeons who should have refused to provide sex changes for kids. How on earth do you justify extremely dangerous surgery as the solution for a mental illness?
I watch videos with transitioners and it's heartbreaking.
I want to look up the latest news on James Younger whose mother wants him castrated but I can't bear to even think of such evil. If she just left him alone he could grow up to be a perfectly healthy straight or gay man. Who cares which so as long they have their health.
"as such a parent" -- at least metaphorically speaking -- I'm certainly interested in emailing you about the "approach I have taken with regard to my child’s gender identity" -- if you're at all interested.
However, I think you need to specify -- in 25 words or less -- exactly what you mean by "gender identity". As I had requested in a comment on a recent post of yours.
Seems to me that the crux of the matter is how children, how we all develop our senses of self, and how that process can go off the rails and into the weeds in so many ways. An absolutely awesome responsibility to shepard kids into a more or less functional adulthood -- the hand that rocks the cradle rules the nation. Which is maybe some reason to argue that too many "parents" have fallen down on the job or never showed up for it in first place.
But in any case, some reason -- in fact, many reasons -- to argue that gender identity may be somewhat akin to the imaginary friends that many have argued presaged, that were and are the harbingers of both religion and consciousness itself. For example, see:
If there's a parent you know who you think would be open to responding/sharing something about their experience, sure. I think there are a ton of parents on my Substack, though.
Dear Penny, thank you for writing to me. Once I saw how much material I got, I decided to split the piece in two and will be covering parents who affirmed (to varying degrees) and their experiences, including yours with being concerned about the field itself, in a future piece!
I could email you but would you be available for a zoom? I kinda hate writing about it anymore but happy to chat
Hey there, I'm definitely interested in doing in-depth interviews on this in the not-so-distant future and would love to talk to you on Zoom then, but I need to get a little more breathing room in my schedule first. I'd be happy to reach out then if that's something you'd be interested in. For this week's piece/deadline, I'm hoping for emails.
Thank you for wanting to write about parents. We are victims too.
Yes. And I’m sure most parents are not “overplaying” it.
How can you tell? 🙂😉
You read that article by Kaeley Harms on Matt Walsh?
https://kaeleytrillerharms.substack.com/p/i-dont-really-want-to-talk-about/comment/18411953
Kaeley quite reasonably supports Walsh for his documentary, but likewise throws a few stones at him for his self-indulgent histrionics -- "how DARE you!!?"🙄 -- while he was being rather clueless about the differences between sex (biology) and genders (psychology).
As long as too many PITT parents refuse to even consider that dichotomy, so long will there be a question of "overplaying it".
How can *you* tell? It’s all a matter of opinion.
These are individuals (all with different personalities) going through an incredibly damaging and difficult time. I’m sure there are a percentage of what you’re speaking of, but I don’t think it’s useful to “advise” the way you did in the first comment.
In terms of social graces, I find it rather rude the way you are approaching this in this context. Contrarian? Perhaps. I find people who excitedly stuff their contrarian thoughts atop the actual lived experiences of others are not trying to help, but more to show how they have a different opinion and how “good” they are for noticing this other perspective. Looking for a pat on their back. Good boy! You’ve corrected a possible flaw.
It makes me cringe. It feels childish. Of course, that is just my personal feeling.
this is a rare space where parents who have been through this can express themselves—so I avoid coming here with negative assumptions about those parents. Of course, everyone has their own perspective on these matters.
Don't think it is "just" a "matter of opinion". Or at least not just mine. You read that post of Kaeley Harms? This bit in particular?
KH: "[Walsh is] right that transgender ideology is a problem, but he is completely blind to the reality that it’s a problem that exists, in part, because of the regressive sex-role stereotypes he himself prescribes as the solution."
Seems that both Walsh and many of the PITT crowd are rather dogmatically attached to those "regressive sex-role stereotypes", largely because they apparently think that sex [AKA reproductive biology] and gender [personalities & personality types] are the same kettles of fish. Some reason to argue that they're only "victims" of being overly attached to untenable dogma and quite unscientific claptrap -- something of a self-inflicted wound. And thereby as much a part of the problem as of the solution.
As for "rude" and "lived experiences", not quite sure how being offended counts for a great deal. And "lived experiences" is also the mantra of the transloonie nutcases. Which really don't count for much either, particularly when the issue is some "grim meat hook realities", when the question is what it takes to qualify as male and female and the consequences of them.
And as for "negative assumptions about those parents", you might consider that one such parent -- Penny Adrian -- has liked several of my comments in this thread:
https://substack.com/profile/551643-penny-adrian/note/c-21219295
And another one -- Hippiesq -- commenting elsewhere here has commented positively on my own post on the issue:
https://humanuseofhumanbeings.substack.com/p/is-nothing-sacred-looking-into-the
So I really don't think I'm all that much out of line.
Don't overplay the latter. Kind of think too many "gender critical parents" are often more a part of the problem than of the solution.
Can you say more about that?
I'd have to dig through my files, but seem to recollect having a well-stuffed folder on the topic somewhere ... 😉🙂
Seriously though, not just me that has raised an eyebrow thereon. I certainly don't envy parents with dysphoric children, and my heart goes out to them in considering the grief they experience as a result. But while it is probably moot exactly how many of my "incident reports" justify that charge of "playing the victim", I can think of several cases offhand that might fill the bill. Though it will be hard to do justice to them on a smartphone -- may have to add citations and elaborations later 🙂.
But the one that first sprang to mind was a conversation I'd had with, I think, both a poster and commenter on PITT. She seemed quite dogmatically insistent that sex and gender were the same from which I got the impression -- have to check my files for confirmation -- that she was motivated more by "conversion therapy", outright grift, that "playing the victim", and "Munchausen by proxy".
Along the same line and probably the poster child on those particular "crimes" is Matt Walsh on whom Kaeley Harms at Honest To Goodness had a rather damning and quite brilliant post:
https://kaeleytrillerharms.substack.com/p/i-dont-really-want-to-talk-about/comment/18411953
Link to my comment thereat which garnered a Like from her so I might be somewhat biased. 🙂
But I think she made a credible case against Walsh's "histrionics" and his dogmatic reluctance to draw a distinction between sex and gender. Part and parcel.
I geddit that parenting isn't an easy row to hoe. But, as with virtually every mode of human behaviour, it has its pathological manifestations. Which I think are in clear evidence on both sides of the issue.
I will email you as well.
Please email me. What I can tell you is well worth knowing. I am a parent in Minnesota. My story maybe different than others as I had no idea my ex was transitioning our minor child while she was Illegally withholding the child from my parental time with the child. I share co-legal, yet the state put themselves in the center of this issue, while hiding their intentions from me.
Regards,
Brent
I’m sorry Brent. I moved a couple of years ago and have been watching what’s happening there. All the best to you and your daughter.
Is there a certain aspect of this that you're most interested in hearing about?
Navigating relationship with child (regardless of approach to their trans identity/transition), experiences with therapists/clinicians, how it affected relationships with friends/family
Going to add this to the post.
Thanks.
I'll be emailing you!
thank you
It will be cathartic to share our story with someone who is interested, thank you. So many friends honestly can’t believe what doctors tried to do when I tell them.
My Own Realities | Storyboard Theater | The Termination of Parental Rights
https://rumble.com/v2hnquw-my-own-realities-storyboard-theater-the-termination-of-parental-rights.html
I will also be sending you an email.
I'd be happy to talk to you.
Before starting your research you should watch this short video. Helen dares to say the quiet part out loud. Keep this fact in your mind at all times especially when evaluating a person's honesty.
The Mistake That Cannot Be Unmade or Admitted
https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1681878080040628229?s=20
Helen Joyce says so many smart and well thought out things and there are many important moments in this interview. But, my sense is that there are parents who "supported" their children over the years, for various reasons and in differing, sometimes very difficult, circumstances - and who now reflect on and regret that, or parts of that, deeply. And some of them are not in some sort of permanent denial and do want to spread the word - the "gender critical" message - for the sake of others.
No disagreement there. There are parents honest enough to admit it was one big mistake. However, there are also many who can't. For example, Jazz Jenning's mother and other Munchausen by Proxy mothers who made money or gained notoriety off their trans children. Then you have the truly despicable psychologists, doctors, and surgeons who should have refused to provide sex changes for kids. How on earth do you justify extremely dangerous surgery as the solution for a mental illness?
I watch videos with transitioners and it's heartbreaking.
I want to look up the latest news on James Younger whose mother wants him castrated but I can't bear to even think of such evil. If she just left him alone he could grow up to be a perfectly healthy straight or gay man. Who cares which so as long they have their health.
https://yourunclepedro.substack.com/p/the-tragic-tale-of-james-younger
https://yourunclepedro.substack.com/p/the-tragedy-of-jazz-jennings-life
Yep, I'll be sending you an email.
Thank you. I appreciate that. I have began to be very vocal on Twitter. @BrentBowlby if anyone cares to see what's really going on in Minnesota.
"as such a parent" -- at least metaphorically speaking -- I'm certainly interested in emailing you about the "approach I have taken with regard to my child’s gender identity" -- if you're at all interested.
However, I think you need to specify -- in 25 words or less -- exactly what you mean by "gender identity". As I had requested in a comment on a recent post of yours.
Seems to me that the crux of the matter is how children, how we all develop our senses of self, and how that process can go off the rails and into the weeds in so many ways. An absolutely awesome responsibility to shepard kids into a more or less functional adulthood -- the hand that rocks the cradle rules the nation. Which is maybe some reason to argue that too many "parents" have fallen down on the job or never showed up for it in first place.
But in any case, some reason -- in fact, many reasons -- to argue that gender identity may be somewhat akin to the imaginary friends that many have argued presaged, that were and are the harbingers of both religion and consciousness itself. For example, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
Something of a delicate operation to tenderly nurture that first spark.
Hi Eliza, I’ve written quite a bit in the comments of others’ substacks. I will email you.
I’ll send you an email too.
Are you asking us to refer to you parents we know about?
If there's a parent you know who you think would be open to responding/sharing something about their experience, sure. I think there are a ton of parents on my Substack, though.
Deadline?
Ack, good question. Sunday night would be ideal.
Dear Penny, thank you for writing to me. Once I saw how much material I got, I decided to split the piece in two and will be covering parents who affirmed (to varying degrees) and their experiences, including yours with being concerned about the field itself, in a future piece!