Thank you both for this inspiring interview. I'm so impressed by feminists like Sybilla, fighting on after the latest onslaught. It seems both of the attacks on women's and girls' rights and health - gender ideology and Islam - arise from men's entitlement and power-hunger. I suppose there are a few females bearing more responsibility than most, like Judith Butler, but I don't think women would have come up with transgenderism in a million years, and its history is full of men masquerading as women, for fetishistic reasons or coveting the biological powers women possess, bolstered by the intellectual abominations of mostly male postmodern philosophers. We men are the main culprits, and the fallout, that girls want to turn into us, is a sick irony that's hard to bear. Thank you again. I'm inspired to speak out more.
Thank you for your comment. It must be difficult for you to live in a patriarchal culture.
Your comment makes me want to weep with grief for men, who seem oblivious to the harm they're doing to both women, but also themselves. They've lost connection to their hearts.
The world would be a very different place if men had not been indoctrinated to believe in their superiority to women. At some point in our history as a species, male aggression and entitlement became normalized. Women and children have suffered ever since. I think men in some ways have lost more because they would have to become dehumanized in order not to see how their behaviour deeply traumatizes the other half of humanity.
Despite our best efforts as mothers, we cannot seem to prevent our sons from being inculcated into patriarchy. And so, tragically, the cycle continues.
As a woman who was one of many woman in my family who were molested, sexually and/or raped by family members or partners, it's taken me a lifetime to come to terms with the trauma. I'm one of the lucky ones. The other women have extremely dysfunctional lives.
This will not end well. The evidence is everywhere we look.
NO, it was a hijacking. It's an abused version of "feminism" that pushed that bollocks! This has been debated endlessly by actually informed feminists. Gender ideology essentially removes sexual classification, and thus any basis for sex-based rights or pointing out any sex discrimination! That CANNOT BE feminism, since "female" is now just what someone claims to be, be they actually female or a confused/nefarious dude.
No worries. I tried having a reasonable conversation with Boris. Apparently he's not coming back here, as the threads are "too confusing to follow". He sent me a private message, but mainly just to tell me I was, like all male feminists, a misogynist, and he hoped I'd learn to respect women one day. Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein were, famously, "male feminists," so I guess he has a point. ;-D
Check out my youtube channel, Trans Widow Ute Heggen, on which I profile 64 other trans widows and tell our experiences under pseudonyms. I often get this insidious insinuation about how I personally brought the abuse I endured on myself, by marrying him, by not realizing he had a secret crossdressing life and implying with no reason, that I must have been into "kink" in bed. In fact, many of us did not have the autonomy, finances or agency to leave. In over 1/3 of these 65 cases, as I include mine, these men raped and beat up their wives. In zero cases have these men been prosecuted, though their sex crimes and acts of strangulation were reported to law enforcement. I was in fact, a traditional mom, staying home, while my husband made up stories about business trips, used up family money he'd hidden secretly and insulted me in front of our sons. He now says he's me, mother of the children. Does my lack of feminist capability make you happy, Boris? Here's my explanation of what went wrong in the field of psychology, causing men to claim female identity, atrocious behavior sanctified by mostly male "sexologist" PhD psychologists and psychiatrists. I don't have a PhD, so these bastards say I'm not qualified to tell the facts about child development, learned through my Masters level study in Early Childhood Education. Does my lack of agency satisfy you, Boris?
And PS re "why do you think TERFs are heing battled noe by other feminists?" needs to be rephrased: as "other 'feminists'". On the scale of feminism, TERFs do not recognise LibFems as being "feminists" at all -- though the men that LibFems suck up to find them such useful handmaidens to attack TETFs.
Agree. I hold the unpopular opinion that modern feminism, not the natural roles of the birth sex, is the social construct. Feminism is a part of the problem, and it is fighting mighty hard to stay relevant and dominant.
It might surprise you that the "natural roles of the birth sex" include, in the case of women, being FULLY HUMAN: not restricted by regressive 1950s sex role stereotypes beloved of transgender ideology, that feminists are again having to fight against -- but this time the stereotypes are also entangled in the liberatarian demands of male sexual fetishism, porn and paedophilia, and exploiting thousands of vulnerable children: autistic, with internalised homophobia, and often physically, sexually or emotionally abused. To which medically lucrative "gender affirming care" is NOT the answer.. So your opinion of "modern feminism" is deservedly unpopular.
That's a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of 1970s second wave feminists. The point they -- we -- made was that "gender" described sex role stereotypes: socially constructed roles that were restrictive and dehumanising to women and girls, and even (but to a much lesser extent) to men too.
To say that "it was feminists who really pushed the transgender ideology from the 1970s" is beyond ridiculous -- and falls into that well known pattern of victim-blaming projection characteristic of narcissistic bullies, known as DARVO: Deny, Accuse (or Attack), Reverse Victim and Offender.
DARVO is the favourite ploy of rapists, male domestic abusers etc -- and used frequently in court. It's enshrined in the Bible in the story of Adam & Eve: he ate the apple but "she made me do it".
3rd to last paragraph “hope we will succeed in finding an English editor and publisher, so you can read the other great chapters as well. This book brings together the voices of so many young women from all backgrounds. “
I look forward to reading these collected personal essays. Sounds like it will be an incredible audiobook too.
Excellent. I've been taking the work of getting the word out about dangerous, murderous men in dresses into my own hands. I print out photos of their victims, sometimes with the whole family as he killed his wife, and add who the victim was, how he killed her, where he's serving time in the women's prison estate. (These dudes are not good at hiding their crimes and most confess during trial) I put these posters in plastic sleeves and use strong packing tape to put them up on lamp posts and those metal electric boxes. I do this near high schools. I know they probably won't last a day, but the students will take photos and post them on social media. The will look up the cases and find reduxx.org. Now that I have the testimony of trans widow #65, who was repeatedly beaten up by panty-wearing husband, I just cannot simply do my channel and wait to be discovered. Thanks, Eliza.
Wow, that's taking it to the streets, Ute! Depending on where you live, I'm guessing that's potentially a "hate crime", posting "transphobic tropes" like that. Take care. You too are an inspiration.
I'm only making the point that Harris did not say any details about "trans inmates" who get the tax payer funded sex changes, and the truth is the one she spoke of personally facilitating is Skylar Deleone, who is a triple murderer. The jury gave a death sentence, but CA has a pause on it. Kier Anderson strangled his wife to death, tried to fake suicide, confessed when it all fell apart in court. I'm hoping some of the high school students took photos of it and posted with my message to vote no in Proposal 1. I made sure there were no witnesses. The high school has a large front lawn, so their security cams wouldn't give them a good ID of me in the dark. I also taped lists of those poor young women who died of sepsis or liver failure from testosterone poisoning, and it's posted in lots of popular places, just sheets of paper, taped to signs and empty storefronts. I've seen lots of stuff up like that, but mostly for radical Left events. I intend to shock, and all info is accurate and searchable, so even if the reader thinks I'm a criminal, the statements will prove true.
What an exciting project! Congratulations Eliza on being a part of it! I can’t wait to read this! We are sorely in need of a resurgence of feminism around the world— so many problems both at home and abroad could be addressed by empowered women making their mark on society and taking the helm from those that expect to use and abuse us as we silently stand by. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for an English translation!!
I'm not a fan of feminism by any means and never will be.
I loathe that all feminist writing uses the same old tropes.
FYI
Women in private employment weren't always fired in the 1970s.
Dutch women weren't expected to sign up for conscription until 2020, however all men over 17 have always been sent a letter requiring them to be ready to get military training.
The oppression Olympics is all very well until nasty facts from both sides get in the way.
Sorry you’re “not a fan” of women’s political movement for freedom, safety, and happiness. If you want to not be made to sign up for the draft, maybe you can talk to other men about stopping the male physical and sexual violence that causes wars and necessitates things like male armies, instead of blaming women for yet another way men act out.
“I support total equality.” Then you support feminism. Thats what the word “feminism” means, just like the word “woman” has an actual meaning, and then a made up, fake meaning that crazy men came up with.
I cannot understand the hatred of feminism that is so widespread and accepted today among women as well as men. Perhaps being gay immunizes me from being triggered the way straight men are by feminism.
In any case, I think contributing factors include the rise of Trump and MAGA and the polarization that came with it and the heterodox thinkers who live to overturn liberal conventional wisdom. Trump has made a certain type of man believe they are victims of everything, including feminism.
Some women have always felt threatened by feminism, because of their dependence on men -- plus men's hatred of feminism which some men perceive (but often wrongly) as threatening them. And being scared of people you depend on tends to produce very defensive behaviour.
The feminist movement of "Wages for Housework", as well as more women going out to work, was a real attempt to lift women out of dependence on a male wage-earner, eg if they were caring for children. GDP still excludes all unpaid, often menial and "caring" work done mainly by women, without which the rest of the economy would grind to a halt. Congruently in the UK, government after government has ducked the issue of how to fund social care: with an increasingly elderly generation clogging up NHS hospital beds because there is nowhere else for them to go.
Not true, supporting your hate ideology means supporting abortion, believing on the fake patriarchy theory, believing that women are abused and men are abusers, believing in the fake rape culture trope, believing all men hold women back from positions of power, believing in the fake gender pay gap.
Simple test, show me any well known mainstream feminist with anything good to say about boys or men.
As I was saying to someone else, even KKK/Nazis don't believe they are part of a hate ideology.
"Simple test, show me any well known mainstream feminist with anything good to say about boys or men."
I've not really read any explicitly feminist academic work myself, but did a brief search. I'm sure others here could answer this question with many more names. I offer Caitlin Moran:
Do you have more 'nasty facts'? The one about male conscription to the military seems to follow from two other facts:- men, generally being stronger and more aggressive than women (see: testosterone), have traditionally been the warriors of tribes since Homo evolved (and don't have the pesky problem of menstruation or possible pregnancy, consensually or otherwise), so our role in defence is natural; and boys and men enjoy fighting and play more violent games, and are more likely to relish the prospect of a war so they can get stuck in to the enemy. This is a separate issue from that of forced conscription.
I'd like to understand more of your position, but the above arguments seem like whataboutery.
Eg women are not welcome in the building industry: as an all-male preserve that despises women. The only way that women can get into the building industry is by setting up female building firms and employing other women.
"What sex do you imagine the people were who invented the "male only draft" and put it into law?"
What a moronic post!
Only someone of low intellectual capability could ask that stupid question.
Let me ask you, do you think ordinary Joe Soap who cleans windows, a pipe fitter, a carpenter, a bar man or a tailor would ever get the option to make the decision to send an entire nations men into combat?
It has always been the upper classes that make those decisions.
Upper class women had more power than lower class men.
Only a fool would not know that.
If you think any of that has changed you're a dope.
I suppose you didn't know that the majority of the upper class women on the Titanic were all suffragettes.
They all survived, while the men perished in a watery grave.
LOL. Upper class women were the property of upper class men, just as their lower class sisters were property of their husbands or fathers. Measuring the power of upper class chattel against lower class slave-owners is a low trick, don't you think?
And women might indeed be saved from disasters by men, who might then perish. Men, again, are the ones making the rules of gallant behaviour, not the saved women. Feminists used to rail against men holding fucking doors open for them in my younger days. Why? Because it's bloody patronising. Women generally don't want saving or mollycoddling, they want equal respect and responsibility, and historically men have refused to give it.
Thanks for mentioning holding doors open... I first refused to have the door held open for me by a Norwegian mature student of architecture, in 1961. He had just taken the trouble to explain to me why it was a total waste of money to train a woman to be an architect, and unfair to men whose rightful places were stolen from thrm -- because women would just get married and have children and drop out. I went on to get a first year prize (as one of three women and 33 men), he didn't. I qualified in 1971. I have never married or had children.
You're the guy in the village who doesn't know who the village idiot is.
If women were property like you say then killing your wife would have been legal, cos ya know men made the laws.
Talking to you is pointless.
You're incapable of reasoning outside yoyr programming.
You think women are weak directionless damsels in distress who are incapable of getting ahead with out you the big hero.
I'm betting you're in college, you've just graduated or are in some office job surrounded by women doing some pointless employment where you think you'll be the hero for using your male privilege for fighting for women's rights.
Name a legal right/opportunity men have but women are denied, you can't there aren't any.
I think it would help to distinguish feminism from feminists. You said you weren't a "fan of feminism," but haven't really identified why. You criticised "all feminist writing," and now tell me what feminists do, as though all feminists were guilty of the kind of hypocrisy you seem to suggest. You imply, indeed, "women" when you say this, but there are male feminists, because feminism is a political stance not a behaviour of females.
For example, have you polled men on whether they'd be happy to be roofers on construction sites? Would you say they have a right not to take such a job? Are you suggesting women ought to take jobs on construction sites? Should they be conscripted as roofers? I know that sounds like a ludicrous extrapolation, but if you're annoyed that women aren't taking construction jobs, I'm not sure what you want to happen to make them do so. Furthermore, if you ask women who have tried working in male-dominated professions and not liked it, you might find their reasons are less about dirt and difficulty and more about intimidation and abuse by their male colleagues. That's the impression I've gained, anyway.
I agree about the nonsense of DEI, and the value of equal testing. All that is a distortion of feminism as I understand it, and actual discrimination, just as obsession with "white privilege" is a distortion of anti-racism (and actually racist).
Opportunities should be available, within reason, to both sexes, and vacancies filled according to fitness for the role. My point about conscription wasn't to defend gender roles, just to suggest (a) a historical explanation for the difference, which we might well oppose, and (b) natural reasons why a threatened country might call on men, rather than women, to defend it. I'm not supporting enforced conscription of either sex, nor exclusion of women from the forces, but in a tight spot, like Ukraine is in, it's insanity to expect the women to take up arms, since they'll probably not be able to carry as much equipment, they're more likely to be terrified of conflict and not played violent video games, they're more likely to be pacifists, and, if they have kids, they're more likely to have detailed knowledge and experience of their child-rearing in the family. They might actually be pregnant or breast-feeding an infant. This is just reality. This is "equal testing", although admittedly based on the blunt tool of sex discrimination.
Men are discriminated against too. So we should be masculists where necessary as well, and many societies have moved in that direction, with paternity leave, increased paternal parenting claims for divorcees, etc. Maybe there's a lot more for us to acheive.
"The top ten mens jobs vs the top ten women's job's is practically identical all over Europe."
So you only accept there's equality if there are equal numbers of men and women? And yet you don't want positive discrimination? Don't you consider that maybe men and women have a right to choose different jobs, and have different preferences (maybe because THEY'RE DIFFERENT)?
"Sweden still has a gender pay gap despite women having complete equal rights."
A moment ago you said the gender pay gap was "fake". And clearly women don't have equal rights if they don't have equal right to the same pay for doing the same job. You're maybe using another measure of gender pay gap - doing a range of different jobs between the sexes may cause a different pay generally between the sexes, but that doesn't mean there's discrimination in pay for men and women in one particular role.
You know where babies come from, don't you? Do you think women just drop them under the desk and then nip off to the canteen for a capuccino?
Can you explain why you think I'm a supporter of a "toxic hate ideology" (from anything I've said)?
The problem seems to be we're starting from different axioms. You believe patriarchy is "fake," whereas I see it everywhere - less in some more progressive places, but still noticable - and, more importantly, it's the historic default of almost all human cultures (since perhaps the Paleolithic), and underlined by serious biological differences between the sexes.
I agree "you don't need to be a feminist to be a supporter of equal rights," but MY UNDERSTANDING of feminism is virtually the same, except that we can't have ACTUALLY equal rights, since we have different bodies. I don't have the right to abortion or safe midwifery, because I don't have a uterus.
"Feminism" might be an unfortunate name, because it gives people like you the idea it's man-hating or female supremacism. So you have a point, if you just prefer to call your equality support a different word, but you're maligning feminists and feminism. But make no mistake, it was a blink of an eye ago that women couldn't open a bank account, or write a cheque, or buy a house, etc., etc. without their husband or father or some other "responsible male" signing off on it. Women have had to fight for equal rights in dozens of battles. Men have had only a few areas where they were the second class citizen (like child custody hearings, paternity leave, etc.). So it kind of makes sense for women to call their fight feminism, and as a supporter of it, I'm a male feminist.
Thank you both for this inspiring interview. I'm so impressed by feminists like Sybilla, fighting on after the latest onslaught. It seems both of the attacks on women's and girls' rights and health - gender ideology and Islam - arise from men's entitlement and power-hunger. I suppose there are a few females bearing more responsibility than most, like Judith Butler, but I don't think women would have come up with transgenderism in a million years, and its history is full of men masquerading as women, for fetishistic reasons or coveting the biological powers women possess, bolstered by the intellectual abominations of mostly male postmodern philosophers. We men are the main culprits, and the fallout, that girls want to turn into us, is a sick irony that's hard to bear. Thank you again. I'm inspired to speak out more.
Thank you for your comment. It must be difficult for you to live in a patriarchal culture.
Your comment makes me want to weep with grief for men, who seem oblivious to the harm they're doing to both women, but also themselves. They've lost connection to their hearts.
The world would be a very different place if men had not been indoctrinated to believe in their superiority to women. At some point in our history as a species, male aggression and entitlement became normalized. Women and children have suffered ever since. I think men in some ways have lost more because they would have to become dehumanized in order not to see how their behaviour deeply traumatizes the other half of humanity.
Despite our best efforts as mothers, we cannot seem to prevent our sons from being inculcated into patriarchy. And so, tragically, the cycle continues.
As a woman who was one of many woman in my family who were molested, sexually and/or raped by family members or partners, it's taken me a lifetime to come to terms with the trauma. I'm one of the lucky ones. The other women have extremely dysfunctional lives.
This will not end well. The evidence is everywhere we look.
It was feminists who really pushed the transgender ideology from the 1970s.
Have you not heard feminists saying, "gender is a social construct".
Why do you think TERFs are being battled now by other feminists?
NO, it was a hijacking. It's an abused version of "feminism" that pushed that bollocks! This has been debated endlessly by actually informed feminists. Gender ideology essentially removes sexual classification, and thus any basis for sex-based rights or pointing out any sex discrimination! That CANNOT BE feminism, since "female" is now just what someone claims to be, be they actually female or a confused/nefarious dude.
Thanks for this, as a trans widow I get this insulting line quite often.
No worries. I tried having a reasonable conversation with Boris. Apparently he's not coming back here, as the threads are "too confusing to follow". He sent me a private message, but mainly just to tell me I was, like all male feminists, a misogynist, and he hoped I'd learn to respect women one day. Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein were, famously, "male feminists," so I guess he has a point. ;-D
Projection
The big man helping the poor oppressed womenz.
Unlike you I respect women who can do it without being the DEI hire.
Try that line with Graham Linehan and you won't get far.
Thanks very much for your efforts, John.
Check out my youtube channel, Trans Widow Ute Heggen, on which I profile 64 other trans widows and tell our experiences under pseudonyms. I often get this insidious insinuation about how I personally brought the abuse I endured on myself, by marrying him, by not realizing he had a secret crossdressing life and implying with no reason, that I must have been into "kink" in bed. In fact, many of us did not have the autonomy, finances or agency to leave. In over 1/3 of these 65 cases, as I include mine, these men raped and beat up their wives. In zero cases have these men been prosecuted, though their sex crimes and acts of strangulation were reported to law enforcement. I was in fact, a traditional mom, staying home, while my husband made up stories about business trips, used up family money he'd hidden secretly and insulted me in front of our sons. He now says he's me, mother of the children. Does my lack of feminist capability make you happy, Boris? Here's my explanation of what went wrong in the field of psychology, causing men to claim female identity, atrocious behavior sanctified by mostly male "sexologist" PhD psychologists and psychiatrists. I don't have a PhD, so these bastards say I'm not qualified to tell the facts about child development, learned through my Masters level study in Early Childhood Education. Does my lack of agency satisfy you, Boris?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ond6_8cAA&t=41s
You're not responsible for the actions of others is my answer.
Being a feminist or believing their hate ideology wouldn't help either.
And PS re "why do you think TERFs are heing battled noe by other feminists?" needs to be rephrased: as "other 'feminists'". On the scale of feminism, TERFs do not recognise LibFems as being "feminists" at all -- though the men that LibFems suck up to find them such useful handmaidens to attack TETFs.
Agree. I hold the unpopular opinion that modern feminism, not the natural roles of the birth sex, is the social construct. Feminism is a part of the problem, and it is fighting mighty hard to stay relevant and dominant.
Once you've won everything worth fighting for your employees still need paying.
The brainwashing of naive college age students doesn't stop because yiu have to keep the "revolution" going.
It might surprise you that the "natural roles of the birth sex" include, in the case of women, being FULLY HUMAN: not restricted by regressive 1950s sex role stereotypes beloved of transgender ideology, that feminists are again having to fight against -- but this time the stereotypes are also entangled in the liberatarian demands of male sexual fetishism, porn and paedophilia, and exploiting thousands of vulnerable children: autistic, with internalised homophobia, and often physically, sexually or emotionally abused. To which medically lucrative "gender affirming care" is NOT the answer.. So your opinion of "modern feminism" is deservedly unpopular.
That's a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of 1970s second wave feminists. The point they -- we -- made was that "gender" described sex role stereotypes: socially constructed roles that were restrictive and dehumanising to women and girls, and even (but to a much lesser extent) to men too.
To say that "it was feminists who really pushed the transgender ideology from the 1970s" is beyond ridiculous -- and falls into that well known pattern of victim-blaming projection characteristic of narcissistic bullies, known as DARVO: Deny, Accuse (or Attack), Reverse Victim and Offender.
DARVO is the favourite ploy of rapists, male domestic abusers etc -- and used frequently in court. It's enshrined in the Bible in the story of Adam & Eve: he ate the apple but "she made me do it".
Is this book available in an English translation? What a wonderful interview.
3rd to last paragraph “hope we will succeed in finding an English editor and publisher, so you can read the other great chapters as well. This book brings together the voices of so many young women from all backgrounds. “
I look forward to reading these collected personal essays. Sounds like it will be an incredible audiobook too.
Excellent. I've been taking the work of getting the word out about dangerous, murderous men in dresses into my own hands. I print out photos of their victims, sometimes with the whole family as he killed his wife, and add who the victim was, how he killed her, where he's serving time in the women's prison estate. (These dudes are not good at hiding their crimes and most confess during trial) I put these posters in plastic sleeves and use strong packing tape to put them up on lamp posts and those metal electric boxes. I do this near high schools. I know they probably won't last a day, but the students will take photos and post them on social media. The will look up the cases and find reduxx.org. Now that I have the testimony of trans widow #65, who was repeatedly beaten up by panty-wearing husband, I just cannot simply do my channel and wait to be discovered. Thanks, Eliza.
Wow, that's taking it to the streets, Ute! Depending on where you live, I'm guessing that's potentially a "hate crime", posting "transphobic tropes" like that. Take care. You too are an inspiration.
I'm only making the point that Harris did not say any details about "trans inmates" who get the tax payer funded sex changes, and the truth is the one she spoke of personally facilitating is Skylar Deleone, who is a triple murderer. The jury gave a death sentence, but CA has a pause on it. Kier Anderson strangled his wife to death, tried to fake suicide, confessed when it all fell apart in court. I'm hoping some of the high school students took photos of it and posted with my message to vote no in Proposal 1. I made sure there were no witnesses. The high school has a large front lawn, so their security cams wouldn't give them a good ID of me in the dark. I also taped lists of those poor young women who died of sepsis or liver failure from testosterone poisoning, and it's posted in lots of popular places, just sheets of paper, taped to signs and empty storefronts. I've seen lots of stuff up like that, but mostly for radical Left events. I intend to shock, and all info is accurate and searchable, so even if the reader thinks I'm a criminal, the statements will prove true.
Again, fantastic work -- I do hope you don't get caught.
Fantastic work! Good for you
Love this so much. Thank you for all you do and for highlighting Sybilla's important work in this piece!!! XX
Excellent interview with a thoughtful and courageous woman. Thank you.
What an exciting project! Congratulations Eliza on being a part of it! I can’t wait to read this! We are sorely in need of a resurgence of feminism around the world— so many problems both at home and abroad could be addressed by empowered women making their mark on society and taking the helm from those that expect to use and abuse us as we silently stand by. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for an English translation!!
I'm not a fan of feminism by any means and never will be.
I loathe that all feminist writing uses the same old tropes.
FYI
Women in private employment weren't always fired in the 1970s.
Dutch women weren't expected to sign up for conscription until 2020, however all men over 17 have always been sent a letter requiring them to be ready to get military training.
The oppression Olympics is all very well until nasty facts from both sides get in the way.
Sorry you’re “not a fan” of women’s political movement for freedom, safety, and happiness. If you want to not be made to sign up for the draft, maybe you can talk to other men about stopping the male physical and sexual violence that causes wars and necessitates things like male armies, instead of blaming women for yet another way men act out.
I support total equality.
That's why I loathe the toxic ideology called feminism because it has absolutely nothing to do with equality.
You clearly don't support "total equality" because, if you did, you'd support feminism.
Tripe
You're suggesting that the majority of people in the UK/Eire are not in favour of equality?
The majority of people are not feminists.
“I support total equality.” Then you support feminism. Thats what the word “feminism” means, just like the word “woman” has an actual meaning, and then a made up, fake meaning that crazy men came up with.
I cannot understand the hatred of feminism that is so widespread and accepted today among women as well as men. Perhaps being gay immunizes me from being triggered the way straight men are by feminism.
In any case, I think contributing factors include the rise of Trump and MAGA and the polarization that came with it and the heterodox thinkers who live to overturn liberal conventional wisdom. Trump has made a certain type of man believe they are victims of everything, including feminism.
Some women have always felt threatened by feminism, because of their dependence on men -- plus men's hatred of feminism which some men perceive (but often wrongly) as threatening them. And being scared of people you depend on tends to produce very defensive behaviour.
The feminist movement of "Wages for Housework", as well as more women going out to work, was a real attempt to lift women out of dependence on a male wage-earner, eg if they were caring for children. GDP still excludes all unpaid, often menial and "caring" work done mainly by women, without which the rest of the economy would grind to a halt. Congruently in the UK, government after government has ducked the issue of how to fund social care: with an increasingly elderly generation clogging up NHS hospital beds because there is nowhere else for them to go.
I know a few gay men and women who loathe the ideology.
One gay man I've known for over a decade went to a rape crisis centre about his getting sexually assaulted and raped by an aggressive woman.
They laughed at him.
He was a male feminist but could see it has nothing to do with equal equality (if you understand my meanibg)
Not true, supporting your hate ideology means supporting abortion, believing on the fake patriarchy theory, believing that women are abused and men are abusers, believing in the fake rape culture trope, believing all men hold women back from positions of power, believing in the fake gender pay gap.
Simple test, show me any well known mainstream feminist with anything good to say about boys or men.
As I was saying to someone else, even KKK/Nazis don't believe they are part of a hate ideology.
I didn't want to leave this hanging.
"Simple test, show me any well known mainstream feminist with anything good to say about boys or men."
I've not really read any explicitly feminist academic work myself, but did a brief search. I'm sure others here could answer this question with many more names. I offer Caitlin Moran:
https://time.com/6317234/caitlin-moran-what-about-men-interview/
...and also think this is worth posting:
https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/new-study-debunks-myth-feminists-hate-men
Caitlin Moran loves the men she knows, it's "males and al things male" she has a problem with.
The comments on this video show exactly the problem with this hate filled bigoted ideology.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CH8-yNg8Btk
As for your other link, who did they ask?
Feminists?
It's like asking Nazis, "is Nazism a hate ideology"
Do you have more 'nasty facts'? The one about male conscription to the military seems to follow from two other facts:- men, generally being stronger and more aggressive than women (see: testosterone), have traditionally been the warriors of tribes since Homo evolved (and don't have the pesky problem of menstruation or possible pregnancy, consensually or otherwise), so our role in defence is natural; and boys and men enjoy fighting and play more violent games, and are more likely to relish the prospect of a war so they can get stuck in to the enemy. This is a separate issue from that of forced conscription.
I'd like to understand more of your position, but the above arguments seem like whataboutery.
Role?
You mean a gender role?
I though feminists were against gender roles
My point about male only draft is feminists pick and choose what sort of equality they desire.
It's like a buffet, "oh yes I'll have equal power"
"The draft, no thanks you can keep that"
"Equal pay, oh definitely"
"Working on roofs or construction on well paid jovs, no thanks, too dirty and difficult"
"Leadership positions through DEI, hire, oh yes please"
"Equal testing and qualifications, no thank you"
Gross generalisations, no evidence.
Eg women are not welcome in the building industry: as an all-male preserve that despises women. The only way that women can get into the building industry is by setting up female building firms and employing other women.
I remember there was a Dragons Den episode where these feminists bigots were trying to get female only companies.
The dragons saw straight through their sexist bigotry.
There are no laws I'm aware of that forbid women being employed in construction.
Any woman going for a job as a labourer will be welcomed with open arms.
What sex do you imagine the people were who invented the "male only draft" and put it into law?
"What sex do you imagine the people were who invented the "male only draft" and put it into law?"
What a moronic post!
Only someone of low intellectual capability could ask that stupid question.
Let me ask you, do you think ordinary Joe Soap who cleans windows, a pipe fitter, a carpenter, a bar man or a tailor would ever get the option to make the decision to send an entire nations men into combat?
It has always been the upper classes that make those decisions.
Upper class women had more power than lower class men.
Only a fool would not know that.
If you think any of that has changed you're a dope.
I suppose you didn't know that the majority of the upper class women on the Titanic were all suffragettes.
They all survived, while the men perished in a watery grave.
LOL. Upper class women were the property of upper class men, just as their lower class sisters were property of their husbands or fathers. Measuring the power of upper class chattel against lower class slave-owners is a low trick, don't you think?
And women might indeed be saved from disasters by men, who might then perish. Men, again, are the ones making the rules of gallant behaviour, not the saved women. Feminists used to rail against men holding fucking doors open for them in my younger days. Why? Because it's bloody patronising. Women generally don't want saving or mollycoddling, they want equal respect and responsibility, and historically men have refused to give it.
Thanks for mentioning holding doors open... I first refused to have the door held open for me by a Norwegian mature student of architecture, in 1961. He had just taken the trouble to explain to me why it was a total waste of money to train a woman to be an architect, and unfair to men whose rightful places were stolen from thrm -- because women would just get married and have children and drop out. I went on to get a first year prize (as one of three women and 33 men), he didn't. I qualified in 1971. I have never married or had children.
Let's me guess.
You're the guy in the village who doesn't know who the village idiot is.
If women were property like you say then killing your wife would have been legal, cos ya know men made the laws.
Talking to you is pointless.
You're incapable of reasoning outside yoyr programming.
You think women are weak directionless damsels in distress who are incapable of getting ahead with out you the big hero.
I'm betting you're in college, you've just graduated or are in some office job surrounded by women doing some pointless employment where you think you'll be the hero for using your male privilege for fighting for women's rights.
Name a legal right/opportunity men have but women are denied, you can't there aren't any.
I think it would help to distinguish feminism from feminists. You said you weren't a "fan of feminism," but haven't really identified why. You criticised "all feminist writing," and now tell me what feminists do, as though all feminists were guilty of the kind of hypocrisy you seem to suggest. You imply, indeed, "women" when you say this, but there are male feminists, because feminism is a political stance not a behaviour of females.
For example, have you polled men on whether they'd be happy to be roofers on construction sites? Would you say they have a right not to take such a job? Are you suggesting women ought to take jobs on construction sites? Should they be conscripted as roofers? I know that sounds like a ludicrous extrapolation, but if you're annoyed that women aren't taking construction jobs, I'm not sure what you want to happen to make them do so. Furthermore, if you ask women who have tried working in male-dominated professions and not liked it, you might find their reasons are less about dirt and difficulty and more about intimidation and abuse by their male colleagues. That's the impression I've gained, anyway.
I agree about the nonsense of DEI, and the value of equal testing. All that is a distortion of feminism as I understand it, and actual discrimination, just as obsession with "white privilege" is a distortion of anti-racism (and actually racist).
Opportunities should be available, within reason, to both sexes, and vacancies filled according to fitness for the role. My point about conscription wasn't to defend gender roles, just to suggest (a) a historical explanation for the difference, which we might well oppose, and (b) natural reasons why a threatened country might call on men, rather than women, to defend it. I'm not supporting enforced conscription of either sex, nor exclusion of women from the forces, but in a tight spot, like Ukraine is in, it's insanity to expect the women to take up arms, since they'll probably not be able to carry as much equipment, they're more likely to be terrified of conflict and not played violent video games, they're more likely to be pacifists, and, if they have kids, they're more likely to have detailed knowledge and experience of their child-rearing in the family. They might actually be pregnant or breast-feeding an infant. This is just reality. This is "equal testing", although admittedly based on the blunt tool of sex discrimination.
Men are discriminated against too. So we should be masculists where necessary as well, and many societies have moved in that direction, with paternity leave, increased paternal parenting claims for divorcees, etc. Maybe there's a lot more for us to acheive.
The point about conscription is it's basically slavery.
If a man refused he can be fined/imprisoned or both.
If we want gender equality then women shoukd have equal rights/opportunities/responsibilities/consequences.
Were nowhere near giving women equal responsibilities or consequences.
Just breezed through your post.
It's the usual stuff I've read before.
Where is the most egalitarian nation in say Europe?
Sweden would be No.1, on Sweden if feminism was working then both men and women would be taking each other's jobs.
But they are not.
The top ten mens jobs vs the top ten women's job's is practically identical all over Europe.
Sweden still has a gender pay gap despite women having complete equal rights.
"The top ten mens jobs vs the top ten women's job's is practically identical all over Europe."
So you only accept there's equality if there are equal numbers of men and women? And yet you don't want positive discrimination? Don't you consider that maybe men and women have a right to choose different jobs, and have different preferences (maybe because THEY'RE DIFFERENT)?
"Sweden still has a gender pay gap despite women having complete equal rights."
A moment ago you said the gender pay gap was "fake". And clearly women don't have equal rights if they don't have equal right to the same pay for doing the same job. You're maybe using another measure of gender pay gap - doing a range of different jobs between the sexes may cause a different pay generally between the sexes, but that doesn't mean there's discrimination in pay for men and women in one particular role.
You know where babies come from, don't you? Do you think women just drop them under the desk and then nip off to the canteen for a capuccino?
Only 34% of women in the UK identify as being feminists.
Does this mean the other 66% don't support equal rights?
Nonsense of course.
The point is you don't need to be a feminist to be a supporter of equal rights.
My own view is by being a supporter of the toxic hate ideology that you are not a supporter of equality at all.
Can you explain why you think I'm a supporter of a "toxic hate ideology" (from anything I've said)?
The problem seems to be we're starting from different axioms. You believe patriarchy is "fake," whereas I see it everywhere - less in some more progressive places, but still noticable - and, more importantly, it's the historic default of almost all human cultures (since perhaps the Paleolithic), and underlined by serious biological differences between the sexes.
I agree "you don't need to be a feminist to be a supporter of equal rights," but MY UNDERSTANDING of feminism is virtually the same, except that we can't have ACTUALLY equal rights, since we have different bodies. I don't have the right to abortion or safe midwifery, because I don't have a uterus.
"Feminism" might be an unfortunate name, because it gives people like you the idea it's man-hating or female supremacism. So you have a point, if you just prefer to call your equality support a different word, but you're maligning feminists and feminism. But make no mistake, it was a blink of an eye ago that women couldn't open a bank account, or write a cheque, or buy a house, etc., etc. without their husband or father or some other "responsible male" signing off on it. Women have had to fight for equal rights in dozens of battles. Men have had only a few areas where they were the second class citizen (like child custody hearings, paternity leave, etc.). So it kind of makes sense for women to call their fight feminism, and as a supporter of it, I'm a male feminist.
Male feminists are by far the worst misogynists I've ever had the displeasure to come across.
Whenever soneobe announces they are a Male Feminist, you can start your clock.
Harvey Weinstein was a Male feminist
Jeffery Epstein was a Male feminist.
You need to learn some critical thinking before we continue (or just some 'thinking'). You're writing utter tosh. Ta-ta.