"Unfortunately I can’t really experiment with gender expression until I’m a legal adult. I don’t know about men’s clothes, but women’s clothes don’t really work for me."
WTF? Does she live somewhere where girls are legally required to wear dresses? Is she laced into a whalebone corset every morning? What can this possibly mean? Long gone are the days when even 15-year-olds were forced to dress in girly drag every day. (I know whereof I speak, having bitterly resented every day I had to put on a uniform to go to school.)
We live in bubbles but don't know it. As a teen I was teased for not wearing makeup, or shaving my body hair. When I moved across the country to go to college, suddenly I didn't stand out anymore, and my social status improved dramatically.
Siblings tease each other. Then they are best friends. Then they are not. Then... well, I wouldn't call it bullying.
This is one of the most eloquent descriptions of gender identity disorder I have ever read. Her examples of the constant ambivalence she experiences is so well described. One can so clearly see how the current system takes advantage of the patient in the midst of a identity crisis and pushes them to fall in line with others agenda with little regard for the internal struggle she faces. It is in fact, a new form of psychological abuse!
This child is being strangled by an idée fixe that is as helpful and necessary as becoming obsessed with the presence of your tongue in your mouth.
In a better world, the online communities that have seriously damaged her mental health would not be allowed to exist.
There’s another use for such statements, as disturbing as they are. And that’s as compelling exhibits in support of legislation to prohibit the dissemination of harmful online gender-related material to minors.
This girl just sounds very confused. When I was young and confused, I didn't like the feeling, but I also understood that time and growth would bring clarity, and yet she feels that she is under the gun to resolve all this stuff because someone has convinced her that she has a limited amount of time. In fact, that's one of the things that is so dangerous about this trans movement, that there is an urgency to it. You are urged to start the transformation process the MOMENT you decide you are trans, lest your natural growth processes makes the process more difficult. That is an impossible place to put a child in.
It is especially sad that she sees estrogen, a natural hormone for a teenaged girl, to be some kind of poison. She obviously has personal issues -- levels of self-hatred -- but instead of dealing with her issues, she wants to side-step them entirely by initiating a process that is completely beside the point. I mean, if you have a heart problem, you don't run out and get plastic surgery.
Yet at the same time, she is also in La La Land. When I read about young people trying to decide what their true gender is, I have the same reaction I might have to hearing people debate whether the Earth is flat. There is a simple inability here to grasp reality. We are physical creatures. Our gender is determined by our bodies, and that's just something we have to accept.
The stupidest thing is what she claims she wants to be/is - a "guy". That's just a slang word, which can even broadly include women! This is one very telling slip up. Many have used the label Peter Pan syndrome for such girls, but this individual really fits.
Yep, like Dorothy's slippers could have taken her home any time she wanted, a woman who wants to be a guy can be one--no radical, damaging physical changes required.
As you suggest, being a guy is a state of MIND, not body.
Labels are the problem, not the solution. People try making up and using new labels, then they're disappointed when it doesn't help.
I was educated back when being androgynous was desirable. People of either sex were encouraged to reject sex stereotypes and adopt desirable characteristics ascribed to the other sex. We didn't change our labels, we changed our behaviors.
The current movement is so reductive it doesn't permit that kind of thing. If you're a leader, you must be really male. If you like to dance, you must be really female.
The teen who is featured here is probably more disturbed than average, but she is involved in a conversion process that is no different from many other such conversions. People who are trying to fit themselves into a category that does not match their individual beliefs about who they are report similar kinds of comparisons: "I want to be part of that religious community but I don't believe most of what they confess." The emotional need to belong and know who one is often wins out, and suddenly one "discovers" that one was "really" a Christian, or a Republican all along.
We may not be able to end this particular conversion struggle for teens as long as the change of sex is held out as a real choice at age 18 or 25 or 50.
I don't know about more disturbed than average. She's more confused and ambivalent than average, which is probably a good sign. She really does exemplify the incoherence of this whole phenomenon. She's a victim of the insanity of the zeitgeist.
I wonder if this phenomenon is actually a discrete variety of pathology. We've seen it with people like Rachel Dolezal and many other examples. "Identity Projection"?
I don't know, Fredro, it could be. A lot of the "wannabe" identities can be explained by relatively common circumstances, however. Fluidity of identity is normal in adolescents, and when it is combined with low self esteem kids often gravitate towards "rebel without a cause" types of identities. This used to be a strategy that kids worked out on their own, e.g., Punk, Goth, etc., but now they are being actively programmed into bizarre identities by adults. They are taught in school that being normal makes them less deserving of support and attention, and if they could be someone else they would get approval, so they try to do that.
I've already left a comment but want to talk about what I'm thinking about today:
I just saw the PBS movie made in 2020 called "Love Wins Over Hate". It is about six white supremacists -- some of them very bad people who committed significant acts of violence -- and how they grew from being hate-filled people to being love-filled people. The thing is, they are almost TOO love-filled now, much more so than I am, and that makes me suspicious. Having been people who hated absolutely everyone, they are now people who seem to ACCEPT everyone. Indeed, white supremacists are so hate-filled that they often attack other white supremacists who aren't hateful enough.
Now, in my own life, I am (hopefully) on a trajectory towards being more loving and accepting, but that doesn't extent to transgender ideology. It's true that the mixing of male and female in one person is something I've always seen as distasteful, but I am nonetheless resolved that I must accept that many trans people do feel an innate urge to be the opposite sex, and that isn't for me to question. I reserve my contempt for transgender ideology and for those trans activists people who act badly, like the ones who try to shut down lectures and conferences and such -- the ones who are trying to kill the conversation.
Does that make me a hater? I try to distinguish between the people themselves and their bad ideas, but I often conflate the two. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Good point. But speaking out against bad ideas is necessary. Trans people don't need the bad ideas in transgender ideology in order to get by and be happy.
Another tremendous analysis, Eliza! Zero gravity gives a good sense of the conceptual mess and ignorance ("The human body doesn’t like not having any hormones. [Is that right?] So I’m going for the next best option which is to go through both puberties and become unrecognizable.") but I also see these forums as the opposite, black holes. Gravitation is just in the one direction and getting stronger. Even if someone tries to shed light on a topic, it usually can't escape. Keep your loved ones as far from the event horizon as possible.
"Unfortunately I can’t really experiment with gender expression until I’m a legal adult. I don’t know about men’s clothes, but women’s clothes don’t really work for me."
WTF? Does she live somewhere where girls are legally required to wear dresses? Is she laced into a whalebone corset every morning? What can this possibly mean? Long gone are the days when even 15-year-olds were forced to dress in girly drag every day. (I know whereof I speak, having bitterly resented every day I had to put on a uniform to go to school.)
We live in bubbles but don't know it. As a teen I was teased for not wearing makeup, or shaving my body hair. When I moved across the country to go to college, suddenly I didn't stand out anymore, and my social status improved dramatically.
Siblings tease each other. Then they are best friends. Then they are not. Then... well, I wouldn't call it bullying.
This is one of the most eloquent descriptions of gender identity disorder I have ever read. Her examples of the constant ambivalence she experiences is so well described. One can so clearly see how the current system takes advantage of the patient in the midst of a identity crisis and pushes them to fall in line with others agenda with little regard for the internal struggle she faces. It is in fact, a new form of psychological abuse!
This child is being strangled by an idée fixe that is as helpful and necessary as becoming obsessed with the presence of your tongue in your mouth.
In a better world, the online communities that have seriously damaged her mental health would not be allowed to exist.
There’s another use for such statements, as disturbing as they are. And that’s as compelling exhibits in support of legislation to prohibit the dissemination of harmful online gender-related material to minors.
This girl just sounds very confused. When I was young and confused, I didn't like the feeling, but I also understood that time and growth would bring clarity, and yet she feels that she is under the gun to resolve all this stuff because someone has convinced her that she has a limited amount of time. In fact, that's one of the things that is so dangerous about this trans movement, that there is an urgency to it. You are urged to start the transformation process the MOMENT you decide you are trans, lest your natural growth processes makes the process more difficult. That is an impossible place to put a child in.
It is especially sad that she sees estrogen, a natural hormone for a teenaged girl, to be some kind of poison. She obviously has personal issues -- levels of self-hatred -- but instead of dealing with her issues, she wants to side-step them entirely by initiating a process that is completely beside the point. I mean, if you have a heart problem, you don't run out and get plastic surgery.
Yet at the same time, she is also in La La Land. When I read about young people trying to decide what their true gender is, I have the same reaction I might have to hearing people debate whether the Earth is flat. There is a simple inability here to grasp reality. We are physical creatures. Our gender is determined by our bodies, and that's just something we have to accept.
She is just so dumb I can't believe it.
Your comment is trenchant! Made me laugh.
But: the really awful thing is that it's stupidity that's been cultivated and encouraged by this "movement."
The stupidest thing is what she claims she wants to be/is - a "guy". That's just a slang word, which can even broadly include women! This is one very telling slip up. Many have used the label Peter Pan syndrome for such girls, but this individual really fits.
Yep, like Dorothy's slippers could have taken her home any time she wanted, a woman who wants to be a guy can be one--no radical, damaging physical changes required.
As you suggest, being a guy is a state of MIND, not body.
Labels are the problem, not the solution. People try making up and using new labels, then they're disappointed when it doesn't help.
I was educated back when being androgynous was desirable. People of either sex were encouraged to reject sex stereotypes and adopt desirable characteristics ascribed to the other sex. We didn't change our labels, we changed our behaviors.
The current movement is so reductive it doesn't permit that kind of thing. If you're a leader, you must be really male. If you like to dance, you must be really female.
The teen who is featured here is probably more disturbed than average, but she is involved in a conversion process that is no different from many other such conversions. People who are trying to fit themselves into a category that does not match their individual beliefs about who they are report similar kinds of comparisons: "I want to be part of that religious community but I don't believe most of what they confess." The emotional need to belong and know who one is often wins out, and suddenly one "discovers" that one was "really" a Christian, or a Republican all along.
We may not be able to end this particular conversion struggle for teens as long as the change of sex is held out as a real choice at age 18 or 25 or 50.
I don't know about more disturbed than average. She's more confused and ambivalent than average, which is probably a good sign. She really does exemplify the incoherence of this whole phenomenon. She's a victim of the insanity of the zeitgeist.
I wonder if this phenomenon is actually a discrete variety of pathology. We've seen it with people like Rachel Dolezal and many other examples. "Identity Projection"?
I don't know, Fredro, it could be. A lot of the "wannabe" identities can be explained by relatively common circumstances, however. Fluidity of identity is normal in adolescents, and when it is combined with low self esteem kids often gravitate towards "rebel without a cause" types of identities. This used to be a strategy that kids worked out on their own, e.g., Punk, Goth, etc., but now they are being actively programmed into bizarre identities by adults. They are taught in school that being normal makes them less deserving of support and attention, and if they could be someone else they would get approval, so they try to do that.
I've already left a comment but want to talk about what I'm thinking about today:
I just saw the PBS movie made in 2020 called "Love Wins Over Hate". It is about six white supremacists -- some of them very bad people who committed significant acts of violence -- and how they grew from being hate-filled people to being love-filled people. The thing is, they are almost TOO love-filled now, much more so than I am, and that makes me suspicious. Having been people who hated absolutely everyone, they are now people who seem to ACCEPT everyone. Indeed, white supremacists are so hate-filled that they often attack other white supremacists who aren't hateful enough.
Now, in my own life, I am (hopefully) on a trajectory towards being more loving and accepting, but that doesn't extent to transgender ideology. It's true that the mixing of male and female in one person is something I've always seen as distasteful, but I am nonetheless resolved that I must accept that many trans people do feel an innate urge to be the opposite sex, and that isn't for me to question. I reserve my contempt for transgender ideology and for those trans activists people who act badly, like the ones who try to shut down lectures and conferences and such -- the ones who are trying to kill the conversation.
Does that make me a hater? I try to distinguish between the people themselves and their bad ideas, but I often conflate the two. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I'd suggest keeping in mind that your goal is to help people, not harm them, when speaking and acting.
Good point. But speaking out against bad ideas is necessary. Trans people don't need the bad ideas in transgender ideology in order to get by and be happy.
Yes, we speak out against bad ideas with the hope of helping people.
Another tremendous analysis, Eliza! Zero gravity gives a good sense of the conceptual mess and ignorance ("The human body doesn’t like not having any hormones. [Is that right?] So I’m going for the next best option which is to go through both puberties and become unrecognizable.") but I also see these forums as the opposite, black holes. Gravitation is just in the one direction and getting stronger. Even if someone tries to shed light on a topic, it usually can't escape. Keep your loved ones as far from the event horizon as possible.
Ever read “The Depressed Person” by David Foster Wallace?
So sad.
Do the gender questioning, like a female, ever say something like, "I want to be a guy so I can be a doctor" or whatever. Something actionable.
Because almost everything I read about the gender questioning is an embodiment of some something.....inchoate, unpinnable, even when pinned.
Internalized misogyny is strong with this one.
Not just this one...