Megan Rapinoe talked to TIME Magazine about the conflict over including trans-identifying males in female sports: You mentioned the issue of transgender inclusion in sports, which is such a hot subject right now, as many states have passed bills that ban or limit transgender sports participation. Where do you stand on this issue?
And once again, the self-contradiction is mind-boggling … sports are somehow, at the same time, “not the most important thing in life” (at least for the girls and women whose crushed dreams must always, ALWAYS come second to the demands and ambitions of male-bodied people) AND so important to trans identifying people that they will surely kill themselves if not allowed not only to participate in sports (as they are already and have always been permitted to do, in their own biological category) but to do so in a category in which they have unfair and immutable physical advantages.
Well said. This was my exact thoughts. Taking spots in women sports isn’t the proper mental health care plan for trans women. If a trans person competing in a league of the opposite sex is a matter of life and death, then we got a bigger issue here, “the need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture” which is that the Whole world can’t accommodate every problem or desire u have. U can’t have ur cake and eat it too. If u gonna transition into a women then learn how respect them and their space- Blaire white (trans women)
More like "Women's rights? Who cares?" "Those hysterical females need to get a grip!"
And people really need to STOP citing suicide as the reason we need to cater to trans. It's irresponsible to oversimplify it. I think it's interesting that suicide statistics for males are often cited when women are trying to discuss their sex-based oppression in order to derail the discussion and remind women of their place.
The constant threat of suicide feels manipulative to me. If I knew someone who told me they would kill themself every time they didn't get their way, I'd ... Well, I'm not sure what I'd do, but I wouldn't think giving in every time would be helpful to either of us. After a while I'd think I was being played. Plus, if sports aren't that important why threaten to kill yourself if you can't participate on the team you want to?
It's extremely manipulative. I think many can recognize that being in a relationship with someone who threatens suicide to get what they want is extremely unhealthy and should be avoided if possible.
I agree about your other comment as well, why doesn't "sports aren't the most important thing" also mean it shouldn't be that big a deal if you can't play on the team you want to? Also, why are women saddled with the responsibility of including men who identify as trans? Why aren't men being pressured the same way?
My exbf had a bff, male, who regularly threatened to commit suicide, so my bf would invite him along on many of our dates. However, he also demanded with regularity that he and my bf have ‘alone’ time without me present, also because he needed that to help with his suicidal thoughts. It was insanely manipulative and definitely unbalanced. He also stole my bf’s handgun one night, after hanging out with us, and took it to his exgf’s house to hold her and her roommate hostage for a few hours, during which he threatened her with suicide if she didn’t take him back. I was too young and naive to realize how manipulative and unhealthy it all was until I’d spent a year with him. Now, they’re normalizing this behavior? This begs the question, why?
Omg, yikes! That's awful. Yes, I agree it really begs the question, "why?" I'd be interested to know what you think. I think boundaries have been dissolving for awhile now and it's due, at least in part to our lives being largely online. There's no sense of boundaries online so people can just kind of say whatever. It's also impaired our social skills and sense of reality so that instead of thinking "whoa, these suicidal thoughts are getting out of hand, think I might need some help" and picking up the phone to talk to a professional, we tell friends and partners and expect them a) to know what to do and b) to take us on as their responsibility.
I also think there's a problem in patriarchal culture of not having a healthy relationship with vulnerability. Patriarchy is all about dominance which means being detached or even rejecting of any type of vulnerability. Because vulnerability is so devalued, we might suppress it, turn it inward, or even use it as a tool for control and manipulation. Whereas, if we recognized it as just another part of the human experience, people might more easily recognize when they need help and ask for it in a way that both gets them what they need and isn't manipulative towards others.
As one comment on Twitter said yesterday regarding small numbers of men in women's sport - if you have a jug of fresh water and put in a teaspoon of sewage, you don't have a jug of fresh water with a bit of sewage in it, you have a jug of sewage. (I can't remember who it was to attribute properly, sorry).
Outstanding takedown of Rapinoe, the quintessential example of an MRA/TRA handmaiden who's throwing her sisters under the women's sports bus that she's happily driving over the cliff. The incredible arrogance of so many celebrity women who remain unaffected by and oblivious to the wholesale destruction of women's hard-won rights is a sight to behold. I'm beginning to feel as though it's mostly women orchestrating our own erasure. Our female indoctrination to be kind is being weaponized against us. Our daughters and granddaughters will curse our name when they see what we had and gave it all up to please men.
Trans kids are not the only ones who commit suicide. Suicide is something like the third leading cause of death for teens, but it can’t all be attributed to gender dysphoria. If kids committing suicide is such an important topic, let’s bring up that trans kids make up a sliver of the population. What about the young trans people who commit suicide because of regret after transitioning? Why isn’t there a movement to rectify the social pressures that lead so many young women and men to kill themselves, all of them?
Schools are increasingly prison like and authoritarian, which probably leads to bullying, which is often cited as a reason for these school shooting massacres. Should not all bullies be targeted, instead of elevating one group above another? Girls undergo tons of bullying, from both girls and boys, including sexual harassment, yet these topics don’t get hashtags and PR campaigns from massive corporations.
FINA made a good compromise with the open league. The fact that it is being challenged as restricting trans rights is difficult to understand, because they can compete, just not only against women.
Without title IX and the women who struggled for it, there would not be women’s sports that are as extensive and popular as they are today, so it feels more like appropriation than inclusion. If it’s too dangerous for post or prehormone trans women to be included with biological men, in schools, bathrooms and prisons, why is the violent behavior of men not being highlighted as something that needs changing, instead of the definition of a woman?
Brilliant again Eliza Mondegreen- I love the google translates bit about she has endorsements to keep - just about says it all about how the present climate decides what we are and are not allowed to say; if we want to keep our jobs, sponsorships, and popularity.
I don't watch much news but saw a clip of Emily Campbell being interviewed after winning a SILVER Olympic medal in Tokyo, the FIRST ever weightlifting medal for the UK. The hacks didn't want to talk about her training and amazing achievement, all they wanted to ask her was about how she felt about a trans athlete, (who in this instance failed to place, though the future of women's weightlifting is looking distinctly precarious), being allowed to compete. She had obviously been told her answer must follow the party line or she'd loose her sponsors and place on the team. She answered like a zombie. I felt really sorry for her, all the years of dreaming of that moment. She will go on to do many things I'm sure but to her, at that time, weight lifting was her life.
"Show me the evidence that trans women are taking everyone’s scholarships, are dominating in every sport, are winning every title. I’m sorry, it’s just not happening."
But it will if nothing is done about it NOW. Just look at the way World Athletics has NOT got to grips with Variations of Sex Development and how they have allowed males recorded as females at birth, socialised as girls but then go through a form of male puberty to participate in women's athletics. The result is the complete domination in the 2016 women's 800m Olympic final in Brazil with males taking all medals and the top female coming fourth.
Rapinoe will only start to 'care' when her sponsorship earning start to be commandeered by bigger stronger trans identified males. Perhaps even taking her place in the US international team.
Even if it's true (and if so, I doubt it'll stay that way for long) that only a handful of women are being unfairly shut out of competition by trans-identified male athletes, Rapinoe certainly seemed to think we should all care about the fair treatment of a mere handful of women when the issue was pay disparity between men's and women's elite soccer teams. She has some nerve making that argument.
And once again, the self-contradiction is mind-boggling … sports are somehow, at the same time, “not the most important thing in life” (at least for the girls and women whose crushed dreams must always, ALWAYS come second to the demands and ambitions of male-bodied people) AND so important to trans identifying people that they will surely kill themselves if not allowed not only to participate in sports (as they are already and have always been permitted to do, in their own biological category) but to do so in a category in which they have unfair and immutable physical advantages.
Well said. This was my exact thoughts. Taking spots in women sports isn’t the proper mental health care plan for trans women. If a trans person competing in a league of the opposite sex is a matter of life and death, then we got a bigger issue here, “the need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture” which is that the Whole world can’t accommodate every problem or desire u have. U can’t have ur cake and eat it too. If u gonna transition into a women then learn how respect them and their space- Blaire white (trans women)
Brava!
What she was really saying:
"I’m sorry, your [girl's] high school volleyball team just isn’t that important. It’s not more important than any one [boy getting what he wants]."
More like "Women's rights? Who cares?" "Those hysterical females need to get a grip!"
And people really need to STOP citing suicide as the reason we need to cater to trans. It's irresponsible to oversimplify it. I think it's interesting that suicide statistics for males are often cited when women are trying to discuss their sex-based oppression in order to derail the discussion and remind women of their place.
The constant threat of suicide feels manipulative to me. If I knew someone who told me they would kill themself every time they didn't get their way, I'd ... Well, I'm not sure what I'd do, but I wouldn't think giving in every time would be helpful to either of us. After a while I'd think I was being played. Plus, if sports aren't that important why threaten to kill yourself if you can't participate on the team you want to?
It's extremely manipulative. I think many can recognize that being in a relationship with someone who threatens suicide to get what they want is extremely unhealthy and should be avoided if possible.
I agree about your other comment as well, why doesn't "sports aren't the most important thing" also mean it shouldn't be that big a deal if you can't play on the team you want to? Also, why are women saddled with the responsibility of including men who identify as trans? Why aren't men being pressured the same way?
My exbf had a bff, male, who regularly threatened to commit suicide, so my bf would invite him along on many of our dates. However, he also demanded with regularity that he and my bf have ‘alone’ time without me present, also because he needed that to help with his suicidal thoughts. It was insanely manipulative and definitely unbalanced. He also stole my bf’s handgun one night, after hanging out with us, and took it to his exgf’s house to hold her and her roommate hostage for a few hours, during which he threatened her with suicide if she didn’t take him back. I was too young and naive to realize how manipulative and unhealthy it all was until I’d spent a year with him. Now, they’re normalizing this behavior? This begs the question, why?
Omg, yikes! That's awful. Yes, I agree it really begs the question, "why?" I'd be interested to know what you think. I think boundaries have been dissolving for awhile now and it's due, at least in part to our lives being largely online. There's no sense of boundaries online so people can just kind of say whatever. It's also impaired our social skills and sense of reality so that instead of thinking "whoa, these suicidal thoughts are getting out of hand, think I might need some help" and picking up the phone to talk to a professional, we tell friends and partners and expect them a) to know what to do and b) to take us on as their responsibility.
I also think there's a problem in patriarchal culture of not having a healthy relationship with vulnerability. Patriarchy is all about dominance which means being detached or even rejecting of any type of vulnerability. Because vulnerability is so devalued, we might suppress it, turn it inward, or even use it as a tool for control and manipulation. Whereas, if we recognized it as just another part of the human experience, people might more easily recognize when they need help and ask for it in a way that both gets them what they need and isn't manipulative towards others.
Arrgh, YES. As always, Eliza Mondegreen says, powerfully and succinctly, what I couldn't calm my own incoherent rage enough to articulate. THANK YOU.
As one comment on Twitter said yesterday regarding small numbers of men in women's sport - if you have a jug of fresh water and put in a teaspoon of sewage, you don't have a jug of fresh water with a bit of sewage in it, you have a jug of sewage. (I can't remember who it was to attribute properly, sorry).
Outstanding takedown of Rapinoe, the quintessential example of an MRA/TRA handmaiden who's throwing her sisters under the women's sports bus that she's happily driving over the cliff. The incredible arrogance of so many celebrity women who remain unaffected by and oblivious to the wholesale destruction of women's hard-won rights is a sight to behold. I'm beginning to feel as though it's mostly women orchestrating our own erasure. Our female indoctrination to be kind is being weaponized against us. Our daughters and granddaughters will curse our name when they see what we had and gave it all up to please men.
Trans kids are not the only ones who commit suicide. Suicide is something like the third leading cause of death for teens, but it can’t all be attributed to gender dysphoria. If kids committing suicide is such an important topic, let’s bring up that trans kids make up a sliver of the population. What about the young trans people who commit suicide because of regret after transitioning? Why isn’t there a movement to rectify the social pressures that lead so many young women and men to kill themselves, all of them?
Schools are increasingly prison like and authoritarian, which probably leads to bullying, which is often cited as a reason for these school shooting massacres. Should not all bullies be targeted, instead of elevating one group above another? Girls undergo tons of bullying, from both girls and boys, including sexual harassment, yet these topics don’t get hashtags and PR campaigns from massive corporations.
FINA made a good compromise with the open league. The fact that it is being challenged as restricting trans rights is difficult to understand, because they can compete, just not only against women.
Without title IX and the women who struggled for it, there would not be women’s sports that are as extensive and popular as they are today, so it feels more like appropriation than inclusion. If it’s too dangerous for post or prehormone trans women to be included with biological men, in schools, bathrooms and prisons, why is the violent behavior of men not being highlighted as something that needs changing, instead of the definition of a woman?
Brilliant again Eliza Mondegreen- I love the google translates bit about she has endorsements to keep - just about says it all about how the present climate decides what we are and are not allowed to say; if we want to keep our jobs, sponsorships, and popularity.
I don't watch much news but saw a clip of Emily Campbell being interviewed after winning a SILVER Olympic medal in Tokyo, the FIRST ever weightlifting medal for the UK. The hacks didn't want to talk about her training and amazing achievement, all they wanted to ask her was about how she felt about a trans athlete, (who in this instance failed to place, though the future of women's weightlifting is looking distinctly precarious), being allowed to compete. She had obviously been told her answer must follow the party line or she'd loose her sponsors and place on the team. She answered like a zombie. I felt really sorry for her, all the years of dreaming of that moment. She will go on to do many things I'm sure but to her, at that time, weight lifting was her life.
Women's lives are definitely at risk.
Jo
"Show me the evidence that trans women are taking everyone’s scholarships, are dominating in every sport, are winning every title. I’m sorry, it’s just not happening."
But it will if nothing is done about it NOW. Just look at the way World Athletics has NOT got to grips with Variations of Sex Development and how they have allowed males recorded as females at birth, socialised as girls but then go through a form of male puberty to participate in women's athletics. The result is the complete domination in the 2016 women's 800m Olympic final in Brazil with males taking all medals and the top female coming fourth.
Great article Eliza.
Rapinoe will only start to 'care' when her sponsorship earning start to be commandeered by bigger stronger trans identified males. Perhaps even taking her place in the US international team.
That is her bottom line. Needs to wake up.
Even if it's true (and if so, I doubt it'll stay that way for long) that only a handful of women are being unfairly shut out of competition by trans-identified male athletes, Rapinoe certainly seemed to think we should all care about the fair treatment of a mere handful of women when the issue was pay disparity between men's and women's elite soccer teams. She has some nerve making that argument.
Once again, great article Eliza, thank you
Someone's really on the ball here. Hint: it's not Rapinoe
Frankly, I am so disgusted by Rapinoe's comments! Another myth busted: alas, she is not the person I thought she was :-(
Thank you. I’m so glad I found your Substack.
I’ll be brief. Great piece, as always. I’ll be sharing this one.