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Sex researchers like Michael Bailey and the people pushing hard on the "autosexuality" and "all straight teenage boys with gender dysphoria have AGP, no exceptions" types are all adamant that porn cannot induce AGP, that it only uncovers AGP already present in the male. Perhaps everyone needs to consider another option - that saturating oneself in porn, gender ideology, and radical politics uncovers a genetic predisposition for hyper-focus, obsessive thinking, and rumination that is so intense it can take over someone's life. We know this type of cognitive style exists - we've seen it throughout history - and that its effects on the individual often depends on what topic he hyper-fixates on and his ability to keep it in balance with other aspects of his life. When I read things like what this young man is writing, I don't think he needs a gender specialist; I think he needs a therapist who specializes in obsessive thinking and addiction. These men shouldn't be encouraged in this type of thinking that causes them so much suffering and harm.

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Or maybe... having a genetic predisposition for hyper-focus, obsessive thinking, and rumination (OCD) that is so intense it can take over someone's life, may lead to saturating oneself in porn, gender ideology, and radical politics.

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Sounds like Asperger's to me.

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This too

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This is an utterly superb comment, one of the wisest things I've ever read on Substack - you absolutely nailed it.

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Puzzle Therapy is always great and should just create a Substack of her comments on other people's Substacks.

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I'm personally not convinced at the moment that the latent/expressed AGP argument account is all that accurate in younger men/adolescents/boys. Sure, it might account for some, but there seems to be a greater chance that it is about escaping an intolerable present, fuelled by the impossible dreams peddled by computer games and transhumanists. These are men wanting change to be done to them, Marvel superhero style, rather than get off their backsides and do something about it themselves.

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Very good points. I have also wondered if there's an equivalent in AGP like there is with gender dysphoria where a young person takes their generalized, difficult to pinpoint and verbalize distress with life and growing up and they latch onto the gender dysphoria script - or more specifically, the AGP script - to give their distress words (an "idiom of distress"). I could see this happening in two very different ways, such as the young man who ends up surrounding himself online with AGP men saying all the things typical of AGP men, including how it's not real, and adopting those scripts as his own to express complex distress he can't otherwise put shape to and verbalize. But on the other side, I can see the same type of young man landing on essays and Reddit groups for the self-aware AGP no and adopting their scripts and ownership of AGP as a way to understand themselves and the distress they can't make sense. Of course, for some young men I'm sure it actually is AGP and they are either naturally expressing it in the former group or truly understanding themselves in the latter. But I do think we need to be open to the idea that are for some of these young males, the AGP scripts are only symbolic for idiomatic expressions of their distress, not literal ones.

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That's an angle I hadn't considered, but it has a definite feel of correctness to it. Many of the reports Eliza puts up have an element of inchoate yearning for meaning through adoption of terms which (to me) clearly don't fit what the writer is trying to find.

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Puzzle Therapy, are you actually a therapist? I second Eliza's suggestion that you create your own Substack, but not just to post your comments on, but to expound on these ideas. Right now I'm sitting here feeling very stupid because I have had to read your comments on this article more than once in order to fully understand them. What I would like to see you do is write your own articles in which you put forth your ideas, and then populate those articles with examples from real life. Perhaps because my father was a clever sophist, I find it hard to accept theories and concepts that aren't supported by examples from real life.

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They have been sold a fiction and are convinced it's real. And as long as they remain ensconced in a digital reality where gender ideology is gospel and J.K. Rowling is the Antichrist, that fiction won't be challenged in a meaningful way.

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Exactly this. Thank you.

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The age at which they start consuming porn is likely important. And do they substitute early sexual experiences with another human being, because their standards for a partner are wildly unrealistic, for porn? Any nerdy girl who has dated mostly nerdy guys, some of whom had late sexual experiences, probably knows the pain and frustration of trying to teach them how women actually want to be touched. Many of these guys reject real women, because only porn fits into the porn sized hole that their personalities have solidified around.

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Boom! Yes! This has been my take for a while and I find it infuriating people are doing with sexual behavioral disorders what they are doing with gender dysphoria. Having gender dysphoria doesn’t mean you are “a trans person” and having obsessive, disordered sexual behavior that involves you applying your fantasies to your own body in a socially isolated, trapped loop doesn’t mean you are “an autogynephile.” People have disordered behaviors all the time. The key is 1. Recognizing it as disordered and 2. Choosing to get help and stop it if it’s not serving your life.

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Have you read any of Charles Moser critiques? For example this one? https://docx2.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/BATcritique.pdf

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Michael Bailey, Kevin Hsu etc. have been trying to push that this and other paraphilias or fetishes are a sexual orientation. There is a symposium where they discuss their theory.

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Eliza, you are a master at dredging up disturbing stuff from the internet.

Reading his words reminds of me of people who seem normal in every way, but then, for no apparent reason, slide into psychosis. I've read of many instances of people slipping into madness for no apparent reason, and this guy sounds like he could be one. I'm also struck by how he is cultivating his own obsessions -- indeed, people who slide into psychosis often do so via obsessions. There is something about the human mind that seems to be given to obsessions.

At times like this, I have to pat myself on the back. Although I think I have a sharp and creative mind, I have never been what you might call "mentally adventurous". A mentally adventurous person might be someone who takes up drugs and prostitution and then swears off of them, become then a born-again Christian. In contrast, my sensible liberal personality was well developed by my teens and just became more set as I got older. Now, as an old person, I'm not even slipping into conservatism, which old folks often do. I am the same sensible, liberal-yet-realistic person that I have always been. I often feel like I am boring; but after reading this article, I am suddenly grateful to have been a beacon of consistency for 60+ years.

About this fellow, it seems that he was bored and dissatisfied, so found something to be excited about (transitioning). Again, relating that back to myself, I was always a person who felt that I was just managing to survive from day to day. I always felt a little threatened by the world, but never bored. It seems his boredom led him down the trans rabbit hole.

There is some expression about boredom that I've forgotten ... something like "boredom is the devil's playground". Ah, it's from the Bible: "An idle mind is the devil's playground."

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"Six months ago, his Reddit posts were all about audio engineering. Four months ago, he started experimenting with gender instead. He went from being “content” with his life and having “no issues” with his body to contemplating suicide because of the body he’ll never have. He’s just 26 years old."

If you change a few words his story would be the same as a non-religious person who becomes deeply religious over a very short period of time. The difference is that at least finding god, or joining a cult, usually makes someone happier, at least in the short term. I'm sure it also follows the pattern of many (most) forms of online radicalisation.

"At the outset . . . porn had a hand (pun intended) in it, too."

Ehh at that whole paragraph. I just don't get how people can think imagining themselves as something other than what they are is any sort of evidence that they are that thing. Like, if I imagine myself as the Starship Enterprise that does not make it so.

Got to admit I haven't been able to follow those reddit likes. Tried opening one using Incognito mode but I need to log in to verify my age so I can see the content, not willing to use my current account as I don't want r/traps showing up in my sidebar and influencing what reddit shows me. I hope you have a special account for this stuff Eliza, assuming you even use reddit for other things.

"Like so many men who go trans, he’s a software engineer..."

It's funny, in a black way, how utterly stereotypically male so many TIMs are. They don't see themselves as masculine though because their vision of masculinity is still quite firmly rooted in a sort of 80's action hero type of masculinity. They don't see geeks and/or nerds as masculine even though those spaces have been, and largely still are male dominated.

"who hates his job and dreams of a future free from the burdens of employment, though he’s rather fuzzy on how this might come about."

Would it be cruel to speculate that he sees womanhood as easy mode? It's crazy to think that maybe this man sees transitioning as the easier way out of the the economic rat race compared to any form of class based activism.

"claiming that he has an “estrogen dominated body that is equally as biologically female as any other woman”"

This is why basic scientific literacy is important. It seems that both the idea that men and women are fundamentally different and the idea that we are fundamentally the same ultimately ends up hurting women. It's like most people need one simple idea that they can build their beliefs around, like blank slatism vs biological determinism, but that just leads to a pendulum effect every few years after enough damage is done by applying one idea over the other as the only correct view.

"Underneath, he’s falling apart—fast. He talks about “mourning the version of me that never got to exist.” “Maybe in another life” he would have been happy, but not in this one. He recognizes on some level that transition will never get him there: he’s not on a journey—he’s stuck on a “never ending treadmill.” No one tells him he can just step off before it’s too late."

Mourning the person you could've been is something that a lot of people do, just not for such an absurd desire. It's understandable up to a point, but in this case it's out of control.

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>Would it be cruel to speculate that he sees womanhood as easy mode?

I suspect that many females who decide to transition mistakenly believe that as a man they will have it easier in life. About ten years ago, WAPO did a long piece on trans-men which included in-depth interviews with a number of them. IIRC, all were shocked to discover that men don't have it easier--if anything they have it tougher.

As I have said before, even after transition biological women retain feminine characteristics and biological males retain masculine ones.

There was an unintentionally comical video last year of a trans-man literally shaking and crying because "he" no longer had the social support that he enjoyed as a woman.

For a giggle, check out the Theo Comes Out video here.

https://yourunclepedro.substack.com/p/a-few-questions-for-the-non-binarygender

I try to be kind and compassionate but a lot of these kids are stupid and having a fan club of equally stupid clapping seals goading them on into transitions doesn't help.

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I think FtM transitioners are going to have an even harder time than actual men because A) they're poisoning their bodies with T and B) they will, on average, be smaller and weaker than the men they want to live among. Being a small, weak, and sickly man isn't an ideal situation to be in, and it's going to be even worse if you're actually a woman.

Both sexes have their hardships and I suspect that many members of each sex look at the other with a "grass is always greener" mindset.

Lots of men want to carry less of a leadership burden and lots of women want to carry more, but people in the trans community often seem to lust after the extreme of the opposite sex. The females want the male dominance, the rugged individualism, that they see in masculinity, and when the can't achieve that it makes them unhappy. The males want to be submissive, to let go of their burdens, but not really. It's more of a LARP for them, judging by the way they demand submission to their new identities.

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>but people in the trans community often seem to lust after the extreme of the opposite sex.

I never fail to be amused by how transwomen always end up with Jayne Mansfield bosoms.

I have also wondered how tiny 5'1" Elliot Page is fitting in with real males.

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Is this directed at me?

I have no idea what it means.

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It was just an example of a male actor who is shorter than Elliot Page (but not a dwarf).

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This is a particularly insightful response. 👍👆

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"Would it be cruel to speculate he sees womanhood as east mode?"

Have you read the Atlantic article from the early 2000s where men say exactly that? The Atlantic has now removed the article, but it's saved in a few places and this essay does a really good job going over it

https://open.substack.com/pub/thedistance/p/conservative-men-in-conservative?r=g95y5&utm_medium=ios

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Thank you for your insightful and yet disturbing post, Eliza.. My main reaction to this young man's dilemma is that he is separated, mind from body, and especially these days when young people have grown up in similar situations much more than earlier generations (I'm near 60 now), partly due to malign online influences. I can't help but think of the good advice Ute Heggen (see her YT channel and website if you're interested) gives about going out into nature. It can really help! I wonder if young people like him would benefit from re-connecting with the natural world, as he seems so alienated and obsessed with some of the worst things modern culture has to offer. There's a downright Pied Piper out there calling to them! It's a terrible shame. But it doesn't have to be inevitable. Best wishes to you , thanks for all you do ❤️👍🏼

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Overlooking the pleonasm (I hope his coding is more efficient than his use of the English language), I suppose even I might be tempted by a “deluxe luxury designer vagina”, provided always my state-of-the-art vulva came equipped with a fully-functioning clitoris. But just as tempting would be to swap my little dinkie for a “deluxe luxury designer penis”, or, toning down my ambition, to once again have a full head of hair in its original (yes, I swear!) Scandinavian blond, or a body that looked a little less like a sack of potatoes.

Software engineering seems to be an unexpectedly dangerous profession, from the point of view of mental health, and does not appear to involve the training in logical thought which I would have imagined was a prerequisite. We *know* the effects, if not of “HRT”, then at least of testosterone blocking from a very early age (pre-birth), from the experience of chromosomally XY women (in this case I think we can, and perhaps must, say “women”) who suffer from total androgen insensitivity. Such people typically grow to adulthood *externally* resembling other women in every way, and in the past some lived their entire lives as “barren women” without the condition ever being diagnosed. “Barren” because they lack a uterus, and have internal testes instead of ovaries. So when he speaks of having a body “entirely indistinguishable from a non trans woman” he can mean nothing more than “usable as such by a heterosexual man”: a step up, I suppose, from a totally artificial android (or strictly speaking, gynoid), though no doubt some of his computer geek pals are busy working on that too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

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Whew, MTF land yields equally idiotic, but far less sympathetic characters than FTM land.

“After getting my hands on estrogen…I've had some of my highest highest [highs], but also some of my lowest lows in the past three months.” Yeah, fucking with your hormones’ll do that, buddy.

I have limited empathy for adult men who call themselves “girls.” And I don’t actually want to feel more empathetic towards them and their search for identity, bc their choice to embrace sexualized bigotry towards women just prevents me from caring that much about them. They’re just gross. Someone needs to disconnect their internet.

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This made me laugh, Cecilia. Your comment and Perry's got me thinking again about "transphobia", the accusation most of us "gender critical" folk deny. But yeah, some "trans" or "queer" people are actually gross. There's a usually unspoken demand in queerdom, I suppose the basis of queer theory, that nothing is actually "queer" in the derogatory sense, nothing is "gross" (as long as it's some attribute being claimed by a person). Sometimes it's claimed to be inherent and authentic, probably true of most of the boys and girls who get stuck in the gender mire and think they might be in the wrong body, but there's the ironic, knowing variety, the performative, mocking type that reminds me of the exhibitionism of the punk era. They deliberately disgust us in order to assume the fabricated moral high ground if we complain. We're "straight", stuck-up, unenlightened, bigoted ... if we find it gross when they have a safety-pin through their eyelid and keep puking on the carpet, or prance around in a mini-skirt with a hard-on. God yeah, I'd love to disconnect their internet.

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Throughout all of this, I'm learning that the human male psyche is way more fragile and malleable than the human female psyche. This has been demonstrated in many studies since the science of human psychology first began. Especially in young male's pubescent phase. God help these young men and the young women who will be choosing from this ever increasing pool of disturbed young men.

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Men masquerading as women is the new blackface.

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I don't think Eliza will mind if I say this here, but there is an article in the Washington Post that really burns me up. It is about a runner in the Olympics named Nikki Hiltz. Hiltz, according to the author, is non-binary, and the article is all about Hiltz's evolution as a non-binary athlete. According to the article, Hiltz was born a woman and competes in women's track and field, but "they" (puke) says that "they" (puke) would prefer to transition to being a man, but "they" (puke) hasn't done it yet because then "they" (puke) couldn't be in the Olympics. (Hereinafter, I'll call her "she".)

The reality is that Hiltz is a narcissist who thinks that her non-binary status makes her something special, an attitude which the Post -- in its usual overweening way -- agrees with. Hiltz has made a big deal of her being non-binary, accumulating LGBTQ (puke) supporters all around her who cheer her on, and the Post tells her story as if she were the world's most courageous person.

Of course, being non-binary is not being trans, but since it is part of the whole LGBTQ (puke) thing, both Hiltz and the Post's writer speaks at length about all the usual injustices -- the prejudice against trans people and all that stuff (like this comment). For me, the article is irksome for a whole bunch of reasons: It promotes transgenderism as a special thing, it praises a narcissistic person who shouldn't be praised but rather should be told to act like an adult, and it subscribes to all the trans lies, such as gender identity. In other words, the "woke" author is completely brainwashed, completely divorced from reality. Most Post readers are as tired of this bullshit as I am. I keep wondering when the Post will wake up from the drug they have taken.

There are some people who think that Hiltz may actually be a man, and the reason for that is that, in her non-binary haze, she sometimes refers to herself as a man. So this Hiltz person is not only putting on a non-binary show, but she is baiting the public, hinting that she might actually be a male. I might suspect that she is a man too except that she doesn't look like a man; but given that some of her running times are close to world records, I do think there's a chance she is taking testosterone to enhance her performances (especially since the IOC doesn't test for testosterone).

The whole thing just drives me crazy. I figured out a long time ago that being non-binary is all about narcissism. Trans people too have that narcissistic thing going on, although non-binary people have it worse. This entire stupid group has caused so much trouble in societies all over the world in the last twenty years, and they are harming so many people -- women, children and anyone who disagrees with them -- that to see the Post celebrating them WEEK AFTER WEEK AFTER WEEK -- well, it makes me want to show up at the Post's door with an automatic AK-47 and kill a few people.

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I used to know a woke couple whose teen gay son “came out” as non-binary. The sanctimonious, solemn expression on the father’s face every time he uttered the prescribed “they” was priceless.

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"Non-binary" is the disaffected teen's ultimate revenge, weapon and defense against parents and the rest of the world outside "their" circle of online and real allies.

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This kid's best revenge against his parents would have been to be conservative, or at least heterosexual. At the moment he is living out their fantasies, purple hair and all.

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I share your visceral reaction to the word "they" when used as a queer pronoun. (Heck, even the word "queer" makes me wince.) I liken the effect of hearing "they" to a sledgehammer to the ear.

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The word "queer" is a pet peeve of mine. It means "strange, odd, weird, unusual, abnormal" -- in short, it has no good meanings. As a gay man, I always saw it as a slur. But now the non-binary idiots have taken it over as their own, and some people are even using it as an umbrella term for the entire LGBTQ++++ group. But in my view, no person who has any self-respect would ever call himself that. The thing that really burns me up is that people can now freely call me "queer" and think it is okay to do so.

You know, the trans issue has brought out all my anger. When I die, and I meet the "being of light", I am going to have a lot of explaining to do about why I am such an angry person.

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"You know, the trans issue has brought out all my anger. When I die, and I meet the 'being of light'. I am going to have a lot of explaining to do about why I am such an angry person."

You and I both.

I don't know what angers me more: a straight media figure using the word "queer" on TV or in print to show how with it they are, or a 20- or 30-something calling herself "a queer woman" or talking about the "queer community."

Gender ideology stole a march on us and conquered society while the sane people were asleep.

It's not queer's legacy as a homophobic insult that bothers me (though I certainly understand why it is offensive) as much as the underlying ideology. If Queer "theory" and gender ideology aren't identical, they overlap greatly. At their core, they stand for the proposition that sex and sex roles (aka gender) are not a binary and in fact are not even fixed and constant. The imaginary thing called gender can change over time, and it is normal if not commendable for individuals, including (or especially) kids, to assume new and different gender identities as of they were each a novel pair of socks. Like all ideologies, the one labeled queer places obligations on people to further the ideology's goals. Queer's goal is to create a society free of sex binaries such as male-female or gay-straight so that people can be any gender or sex that suits them - or none at all or perhaps two at a time - at any given moment.

Some queer figures, such as the ACLU's female-to-male trans attorney and faggy terror Chase Strangio, sure sound like they see themselves as queer revolutionaries bent on changing society. However, even the disaffected girl in rural Kansas who's trying on being queer to get even with her parents has somehow absorbed the gospel of gender identity ideology through social media, her peers and perhaps even her teachers. She's doing her best to live it even if it's not her mission to destroy the sexual binary.

In closing, it slays me when square middle-aged liberal male pundits go on about "LGBTQ" this and "LBGTQ" that on cable news programs or in the articles they churn out for a living. I doubt that any of them have the slightest inkling of what "queer" really is. I would love to sit down with one of them or one of their female counterparts who's an avid queer and trans ally and ask them to tell what they think "queer rights" are. Since when does holding a changeable secular ideology or living in accordance with its tenets make one a member of a legally protected class?

One thing is certain, and it's that if gay people like you don't protest the queer and trans phenomena, they are going to be nearly impossible to eradicate.

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But you are gay also, aren't you? I think I saw that somewhere. Oh, and let me thank you for subscribing to my Substack. It will always be free.

Yes, I agree with everything you said. My feelings are identical. Actually, it sounds to me like you may dislike the "queer" label even more than I do. Over the years I have sent off perhaps 40 emails to people using the word asking them to stop.

Queer Theory is a nightmare of sophistry. It is what happens when people let their imaginations run wild, and then confuse their ideas with reality. My father was a shallow sophist, and that is one of the reasons I am so set on what I call "reality". There are two sexes, period, and they determine our gender. There is not any more to it than that.

I'd leave a longer message, but I just had an argument with someone else on another Substack page. I am kind of worn out with all the discussion.

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I guess you managed to get your hands on a copy of "The Man Who would be Queen" for your research. Is there any way to get that book back in print or put it online?

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Write to Mike Bailey and request an e-copy.

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This phrase really captures a lot of what I see clinically: "It’s a brash and brittle display of self-confidence."

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