I didn’t have a secret life. But I had a secret dream life—which might have been worse. I loved my husband; it’s not that I didn’t. But I felt that he was standing between me and the world, between me and myself. So wrote Honor Jones in her viral Atlantic story
Aug 8, 2022·edited Aug 8, 2022Liked by Eliza Mondegreen
The answer to existential unhappiness is surely not to mutilate one's body or to annihilate one's marriage; these cases don't even seem to have particularly bad spousal relationships.
Are they simply unhappy with their lot? Why do they feel the need to 'rip it all up and start again', instead of finding less destructive ways to change their situation?
Before 'Trans' ('BT'), the usual solution would have been to find some fulfilment within the marriage by changing career, taking an educational course, or perhaps even simply by changing lifestyle - which seem to be reasonable actions.
After 'Trans', the solution becomes something that does not lie outside one's self and within the marriage - the answer is now seen as originating internally - with only a hazy understanding of what this implies - and as something that cannot exist within the marriage.
Are they rejecting their sexuality? Their marriage? Their sex? It's such an extreme phenomenon. Thanks for covering it!
"...what name to give this problem." -- Maybe it's "the problem without a name", the feminine mystique. I started reading Friedan's book because I thought it would be a good history lesson but a lot of it rings true today. Middle class white women suffering from some vague malaise, needing more of an identity than wife and mother. Instead of pushing back against sexist gender roles, they do what any "good woman" does -- blame themselves. They search for what's "wrong" with them and SURPRISE! Find a solution in a bottle. But it's not barbiturates like the old days or antidepressants, it's testosterone and surgery. But like any "solution" offered by patriarchy, it invariably feeds you right back into the same system (and apparently, jerking off at grandma's house).
Is this the new mid-life crisis? It sounds soooo familiar! Our parents/older relatives used to get a lover, mess up their families, divorce their husbands, move away from their young adult children, protest in some form or another. Now, our friends are cutting off their breasts and think they are men trapped in the wrong body. Of course, it only happens in "advanced" countries, as women in other parts of the world are too busy surviving to think of ways to escape an "oppressive society". Where did we go wrong?
Fascinating to read this, and thank you for shining a light on this little-reported group of women.
The similarities in the backgrounds of the women are striking. The question is: are these just the women most likely to write about their experience? Are there many others with completely different backgrounds? Socio-economic, race, political affiliation?
Are we just not hearing about these other late-transitioning women from different backgrounds?
Whenever I see stories like this I always wonder "why not me"? I'm a middle-aged woman who has had gender dysphoria my whole life. I never "felt like a girl", and it horrified my mother who tried to force me into being more girly because she was panicked about "what I would become" - no idea what she meant by that but my parents were very religious and conservative so I would assume she meant I wouldn't find a conservative, religious husband and pop out conservative, religious children. I was a tomboy through and through and had very "male" interests - ended up becoming an engineer and working in tech in 90% male environments long before it was cool. Luckily(?) I was the oldest of 5 kids so my parents didn't have a ton of time to overparent me and this was before social media. So there was no childhood transition, I don't like being a girl/woman but accept it as my reality.
When I was 40 I lost a job that I'd had for 15 years and found out I had a chronic pain condition that had been affecting me my whole life (so similar to some of the stories posted as examples!) . I was depressed, angry at losing my job so unfairly (layoff), was in pain constantly, and had pretty serious identity issues. Absolutely textbook mid-life crisis. But I didn't transition. I actually even started reading some transition narratives and played around with the ideas for awhile during that time before concluding that it just wasn't for me, that transition wasn't real and doing that wouldn't solve anything. I had to come to terms emotionally with my new path in life, and I did. It took about two years to come out the other side.
I just wonder - why not me? I have so many things in common with these women but I have no interest in transitioning at all. And I'm not a "no internet" person, but I do avoid mainstream social media like the plague. Maybe that's it?
ahh yes, you've found my entire group of friends, I see lmao although most of them do the non-binary safe version. I'm about the only woman left standing anymore, it's so disappointing. The more I liked a woman and thought she was cool, the faster she ditched womanhood. the only people in my social circles who haven't succumbed are the ones I only tolerated bc they were friends with other women I liked, so I feel very....abandoned. Like they ditched me over here in the inferior Mom and Wife and Woman roles all alone. (I try to convince myself that they're not inferior roles, but emotionally I don't actually believe myself when I say it. but it was easier to sometimes believe it when I had other cool women friends.)
Thank you for sharing your sources, Eliza! I took the chance to read some of these reddit posts and... OMG! The answers to the question "what makes you feel like a guy" are so illuminating!!!!! Like this one: "I should have answer for that right??? Because I don't. I mean, I know I feel very uncomfortable as a woman. I know I Hate my female body (hips, chest thighs), and I know I feel very naked with my lack of body and facial hair.... But....is that what makes me feel like im a guy? I definitely get along more with men then women and always have." It is unbelievable, really! https://www.reddit.com/r/FTMOver30/comments/vwpsxf/what_makes_you_feel_like_a_guy/
I'm confused. These "women' shouldn't be able to just 'jack off'. From what I understand, it's impossible to create a fake yet functional penis. (I can't believe I'm actually writing that sentence.)
Please tell me these stories came out of a porn-addled tim's sick imagination.
Just reading these makes me want to cry. While I am a heterosexual female, I can identify with these women better than any of my friends. I am nearing 60 and just very recently began the hard climb up to the surface. I am trying to know me, the me before I was 17 and his wife, 23 and mommy, divorced and his girl, married again and his old lady. Right out of a freaking Lifetime movie. The obstacles are everywhere I turn. Too many "concerned" individuals asking if I have lost my mind, or the dreaded "Can I ask you a question?" Really just pisses me off. Excuse the language please. They say I am doing it wrong, or look what your losing. That's how we're supposed to do it. I am screaming!!! Don't you get it, I am not giving anything away anymore, In fact I am gaining. Awe well that was my rant. Thank you for reminding me that we are never alone, even if we are lonely
Where did you come across these stories? Jesus! If this were the 70s they’d have flocked to est. if I come across one of these gals in my life I might barf. It’s enough with the teenagers. I find this utterly, morbidly, hilariously fascinating.
It seems to me that Eliza is questioning whether these women are having real experiences, or whether their desire to transition is something else masquerading as gender dysphoria. When it comes to older people who have transitioned (or say they want to), I try not to question their motives too much. They are adults and fully responsible for themselves, and if this is the path they want to take, so be it. As an anti-transgender activist, my focus is on fighting transgender ideology, and on protecting children from harm. I do believe that there are people in the world who really do have gender dysphoria, and as long as they are fully responsible adults, I say, let them do with their lives what they want.
Eliza, et al, I think you might like Freddie de Boer's column today, about how too-online people are making identities out of ADHD, and attributing all manner of normal human challenges to their diagnosis.
I would also compare the phenomenon of middle-age women (and some men, too, that I know) all of a sudden deciding they're trans to the 80's and early 90's phenomenon of "recovered memory". I personally knew several women who "uncovered" putative memories of abuse which they had "repressed" until their 30's, 40's or 50's, always- ALWAYS- with the help of therapists who suggested that their malaise, or unhappiness, or marriage problems, or whatever, could have its roots in childhood abuse.
Please note, I am not, in no way, not in the slightest, saying that child abuse- of the sexual, physical, or emotional variety- isn't real. But in my job, I've worked with any number of people who have gone through terrible traumas- even child refugees from the Shoah- and the thing is, none of them had repressed memories that they needed help recovering. They needed help forgetting.
This is why I compare middle age gender transitioners to those who had "recovered memories"; I see people suffering the ordinary suffering of life, finding out that their dreams aren't going to all come true, that the body breaks down over time, that partners and children often disappoint us, that careers get stuck and plateau, that life isn't as exciting in one's 40's as it was in one's early 20's. . . and turning to some magical answer to explain it all in one big swoop.
I also agree with the commenter who said that this partially about the race to be more oppressed than others. I was speaking to a graduate of a well-known very liberal theological seminary and the (the non-binary person with whom I was speaking) called it an "oppression Olympics," where ordinary nice white folks HAVE to find some way they're not just ordinary white folks who would thus lack moral or epistemic credibility compared to BIPOC, Queer or trans folks.
Thank you, Eliza, for fighting the good fight. I'm the proud dad of two beautiful pre-teen children and I think every day how to keep them connected to themselves in such a way that they can resist some of the unhealthy tides of our society.
Who are the god-awful therapists that these women see? What kind of therapist tells a person to start taking testosterone? Is it some sort of evil hypnotherapy?
This rung so true. A mom influencer I’ve followed on IG for years because of what she shared about birth and breastfeeding and mothering a little one became non-binary during COVID. She actually shared a photo of her wearing a baggy tshirt in the 90’s as proof of lifelong non-binaryness. Every girl wore baggy clothes in the 90’s! Became so clear that this influencer with a now nearly teen son who doesn’t want to be on IG and who isn’t cutting it as a white vegan progressive mom had to go further (no hate to vegans--used to be one!). So this very conventionally thin and attractive 41 year old white woman who has only ever publicly dated and married men on IG, cut her hair and wears ties, goes by she/they (now just they) and I’m supposed to take her seriously? It’s so gross and self-indulgent. Finally stopped following. Wonder what will be the next trend she will submit to...
It is true that all of these women were suffering from mid-life crisis. But the pool of women who suffer from mid-life crisis is exceedingly large, and the answers to those crises are almost as wildly varied. Why does it strike you as unlikely that a tiny handful of those existential problems are problems of gender identity?
Are you assuming that gender identity confusion is not a real thing? Given the staggering array of birth defects we witness every day, and the complexity of the thousands of parts that go into making a human being, why would anyone assume that the _one_ thing that fetal development never gets wrong is a perfect match between female genitalia, brain structures, and hormones?
Obviously only progressive women are going to find transition an acceptable solution to their gender issues, but this is because only progressive women accept that transition is an acceptable solution. You have _no idea_ how many conservative women suffer the same problem but do not endorse the solution because they have rejected it a priori. None of us have any idea what that number is, because it is by definition a hidden variable.
You have put the cart before the horse. You assume that progressiveness is related to the _cause_ of transition, instead of recognizing that it is only related to the _effect_ of transition. We know how many liberal women want to transition, because they tell us by transitioning. We don't know how many conservative women want to transition, because they don't tell us. That does not mean they do not exist.
The answer to existential unhappiness is surely not to mutilate one's body or to annihilate one's marriage; these cases don't even seem to have particularly bad spousal relationships.
Are they simply unhappy with their lot? Why do they feel the need to 'rip it all up and start again', instead of finding less destructive ways to change their situation?
Before 'Trans' ('BT'), the usual solution would have been to find some fulfilment within the marriage by changing career, taking an educational course, or perhaps even simply by changing lifestyle - which seem to be reasonable actions.
After 'Trans', the solution becomes something that does not lie outside one's self and within the marriage - the answer is now seen as originating internally - with only a hazy understanding of what this implies - and as something that cannot exist within the marriage.
Are they rejecting their sexuality? Their marriage? Their sex? It's such an extreme phenomenon. Thanks for covering it!
Thought-provoking stuff. Thanks Eliza.
"...what name to give this problem." -- Maybe it's "the problem without a name", the feminine mystique. I started reading Friedan's book because I thought it would be a good history lesson but a lot of it rings true today. Middle class white women suffering from some vague malaise, needing more of an identity than wife and mother. Instead of pushing back against sexist gender roles, they do what any "good woman" does -- blame themselves. They search for what's "wrong" with them and SURPRISE! Find a solution in a bottle. But it's not barbiturates like the old days or antidepressants, it's testosterone and surgery. But like any "solution" offered by patriarchy, it invariably feeds you right back into the same system (and apparently, jerking off at grandma's house).
Is this the new mid-life crisis? It sounds soooo familiar! Our parents/older relatives used to get a lover, mess up their families, divorce their husbands, move away from their young adult children, protest in some form or another. Now, our friends are cutting off their breasts and think they are men trapped in the wrong body. Of course, it only happens in "advanced" countries, as women in other parts of the world are too busy surviving to think of ways to escape an "oppressive society". Where did we go wrong?
Fascinating to read this, and thank you for shining a light on this little-reported group of women.
The similarities in the backgrounds of the women are striking. The question is: are these just the women most likely to write about their experience? Are there many others with completely different backgrounds? Socio-economic, race, political affiliation?
Are we just not hearing about these other late-transitioning women from different backgrounds?
I think it unlikely, but how would we know?
Whenever I see stories like this I always wonder "why not me"? I'm a middle-aged woman who has had gender dysphoria my whole life. I never "felt like a girl", and it horrified my mother who tried to force me into being more girly because she was panicked about "what I would become" - no idea what she meant by that but my parents were very religious and conservative so I would assume she meant I wouldn't find a conservative, religious husband and pop out conservative, religious children. I was a tomboy through and through and had very "male" interests - ended up becoming an engineer and working in tech in 90% male environments long before it was cool. Luckily(?) I was the oldest of 5 kids so my parents didn't have a ton of time to overparent me and this was before social media. So there was no childhood transition, I don't like being a girl/woman but accept it as my reality.
When I was 40 I lost a job that I'd had for 15 years and found out I had a chronic pain condition that had been affecting me my whole life (so similar to some of the stories posted as examples!) . I was depressed, angry at losing my job so unfairly (layoff), was in pain constantly, and had pretty serious identity issues. Absolutely textbook mid-life crisis. But I didn't transition. I actually even started reading some transition narratives and played around with the ideas for awhile during that time before concluding that it just wasn't for me, that transition wasn't real and doing that wouldn't solve anything. I had to come to terms emotionally with my new path in life, and I did. It took about two years to come out the other side.
I just wonder - why not me? I have so many things in common with these women but I have no interest in transitioning at all. And I'm not a "no internet" person, but I do avoid mainstream social media like the plague. Maybe that's it?
ahh yes, you've found my entire group of friends, I see lmao although most of them do the non-binary safe version. I'm about the only woman left standing anymore, it's so disappointing. The more I liked a woman and thought she was cool, the faster she ditched womanhood. the only people in my social circles who haven't succumbed are the ones I only tolerated bc they were friends with other women I liked, so I feel very....abandoned. Like they ditched me over here in the inferior Mom and Wife and Woman roles all alone. (I try to convince myself that they're not inferior roles, but emotionally I don't actually believe myself when I say it. but it was easier to sometimes believe it when I had other cool women friends.)
"Self-identified progressive but basically a normie until Trump got elected in 2016 or until May 2020 if a little slow on the uptake"
Have you thought about doing comedy?
Thank you for sharing your sources, Eliza! I took the chance to read some of these reddit posts and... OMG! The answers to the question "what makes you feel like a guy" are so illuminating!!!!! Like this one: "I should have answer for that right??? Because I don't. I mean, I know I feel very uncomfortable as a woman. I know I Hate my female body (hips, chest thighs), and I know I feel very naked with my lack of body and facial hair.... But....is that what makes me feel like im a guy? I definitely get along more with men then women and always have." It is unbelievable, really! https://www.reddit.com/r/FTMOver30/comments/vwpsxf/what_makes_you_feel_like_a_guy/
I'm confused. These "women' shouldn't be able to just 'jack off'. From what I understand, it's impossible to create a fake yet functional penis. (I can't believe I'm actually writing that sentence.)
Please tell me these stories came out of a porn-addled tim's sick imagination.
Just reading these makes me want to cry. While I am a heterosexual female, I can identify with these women better than any of my friends. I am nearing 60 and just very recently began the hard climb up to the surface. I am trying to know me, the me before I was 17 and his wife, 23 and mommy, divorced and his girl, married again and his old lady. Right out of a freaking Lifetime movie. The obstacles are everywhere I turn. Too many "concerned" individuals asking if I have lost my mind, or the dreaded "Can I ask you a question?" Really just pisses me off. Excuse the language please. They say I am doing it wrong, or look what your losing. That's how we're supposed to do it. I am screaming!!! Don't you get it, I am not giving anything away anymore, In fact I am gaining. Awe well that was my rant. Thank you for reminding me that we are never alone, even if we are lonely
Where did you come across these stories? Jesus! If this were the 70s they’d have flocked to est. if I come across one of these gals in my life I might barf. It’s enough with the teenagers. I find this utterly, morbidly, hilariously fascinating.
It seems to me that Eliza is questioning whether these women are having real experiences, or whether their desire to transition is something else masquerading as gender dysphoria. When it comes to older people who have transitioned (or say they want to), I try not to question their motives too much. They are adults and fully responsible for themselves, and if this is the path they want to take, so be it. As an anti-transgender activist, my focus is on fighting transgender ideology, and on protecting children from harm. I do believe that there are people in the world who really do have gender dysphoria, and as long as they are fully responsible adults, I say, let them do with their lives what they want.
Eliza, et al, I think you might like Freddie de Boer's column today, about how too-online people are making identities out of ADHD, and attributing all manner of normal human challenges to their diagnosis.
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-dont-have-adhd-feelings-you-just?r=sacu&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I would also compare the phenomenon of middle-age women (and some men, too, that I know) all of a sudden deciding they're trans to the 80's and early 90's phenomenon of "recovered memory". I personally knew several women who "uncovered" putative memories of abuse which they had "repressed" until their 30's, 40's or 50's, always- ALWAYS- with the help of therapists who suggested that their malaise, or unhappiness, or marriage problems, or whatever, could have its roots in childhood abuse.
Please note, I am not, in no way, not in the slightest, saying that child abuse- of the sexual, physical, or emotional variety- isn't real. But in my job, I've worked with any number of people who have gone through terrible traumas- even child refugees from the Shoah- and the thing is, none of them had repressed memories that they needed help recovering. They needed help forgetting.
This is why I compare middle age gender transitioners to those who had "recovered memories"; I see people suffering the ordinary suffering of life, finding out that their dreams aren't going to all come true, that the body breaks down over time, that partners and children often disappoint us, that careers get stuck and plateau, that life isn't as exciting in one's 40's as it was in one's early 20's. . . and turning to some magical answer to explain it all in one big swoop.
I also agree with the commenter who said that this partially about the race to be more oppressed than others. I was speaking to a graduate of a well-known very liberal theological seminary and the (the non-binary person with whom I was speaking) called it an "oppression Olympics," where ordinary nice white folks HAVE to find some way they're not just ordinary white folks who would thus lack moral or epistemic credibility compared to BIPOC, Queer or trans folks.
Thank you, Eliza, for fighting the good fight. I'm the proud dad of two beautiful pre-teen children and I think every day how to keep them connected to themselves in such a way that they can resist some of the unhealthy tides of our society.
Who are the god-awful therapists that these women see? What kind of therapist tells a person to start taking testosterone? Is it some sort of evil hypnotherapy?
This rung so true. A mom influencer I’ve followed on IG for years because of what she shared about birth and breastfeeding and mothering a little one became non-binary during COVID. She actually shared a photo of her wearing a baggy tshirt in the 90’s as proof of lifelong non-binaryness. Every girl wore baggy clothes in the 90’s! Became so clear that this influencer with a now nearly teen son who doesn’t want to be on IG and who isn’t cutting it as a white vegan progressive mom had to go further (no hate to vegans--used to be one!). So this very conventionally thin and attractive 41 year old white woman who has only ever publicly dated and married men on IG, cut her hair and wears ties, goes by she/they (now just they) and I’m supposed to take her seriously? It’s so gross and self-indulgent. Finally stopped following. Wonder what will be the next trend she will submit to...
It is true that all of these women were suffering from mid-life crisis. But the pool of women who suffer from mid-life crisis is exceedingly large, and the answers to those crises are almost as wildly varied. Why does it strike you as unlikely that a tiny handful of those existential problems are problems of gender identity?
Are you assuming that gender identity confusion is not a real thing? Given the staggering array of birth defects we witness every day, and the complexity of the thousands of parts that go into making a human being, why would anyone assume that the _one_ thing that fetal development never gets wrong is a perfect match between female genitalia, brain structures, and hormones?
Obviously only progressive women are going to find transition an acceptable solution to their gender issues, but this is because only progressive women accept that transition is an acceptable solution. You have _no idea_ how many conservative women suffer the same problem but do not endorse the solution because they have rejected it a priori. None of us have any idea what that number is, because it is by definition a hidden variable.
You have put the cart before the horse. You assume that progressiveness is related to the _cause_ of transition, instead of recognizing that it is only related to the _effect_ of transition. We know how many liberal women want to transition, because they tell us by transitioning. We don't know how many conservative women want to transition, because they don't tell us. That does not mean they do not exist.