I had no idea that the propensity to swallow and perpetuate false narratives was so widespread, until I entered this debate. I have never encountered such dishonesty on such a scale, and I have lived a very long time.
I mean, it would be tremendously advantageous if activists could enshrine "And then they came for the trans activists..." because it would invoke a moral imperative (must defend this group against any challenges or there goes everything else we hold dear!) and would help cover up how this movement has nothing in common with civil-rights movements or other oppressed groups (is not oppressed, is an entirely manufactured group)
After the Second World War Pravda started running stories about how Russians had invented EVERYTHING. Brave people joked that eventually they would identify 'Igor' or 'Boris' as the inventor of the wheel. The TRAliban have been studying historical propaganda & disinformation. And China, Eastern Europe, Russia and North Korea have leapt on board.
Does it matter if she was killed by the Nazis or not? It seems to me that it's likely she was killed either in 1933 or later, but the Nazis killed loads of people (including two whole generations of my own family), so that's not surprising. Had trans people existed in the way they do now, it's obvious that the Nazis would have killed them - and that would have been terrible. But it doesn't have any bearing on the arguments today. "Trans rights" trumping those of women and girls is wrong, whatever Hitler might have thought about it.
Thanks. That's really interesting and I stand probably corrected.
I stupidly commented after reading the first few paragraphs of your post, thinking it short. Then I realised I'd missed the main thrust of your argument!
It matters because they are re-writing history, including Lesbian history. (We should not have to worry they will appropriate us when we're dead.) And HE was not a woman.
I so agree. It is outrageous. The trans cult is claiming everyone possible, yet is a fairly recent phenomenon and does not exist in reality any more than Rachel Dolezal is "trans-Black."
We may never know what happened to Dora, but it's pretty clear that no one was killed during the raid. See http://www.hirschfeld.in-berlin.de/institut/en/exil/exil_02.html; also "Nazi students raid institute on sex," New York Times, May 7, 1933 (page 12). Some of the staff stayed on after the raid, and the building was repurposed for more Nazi-friendly uses. Books and other materials were hauled away and later burned, but the statement that the institute was "burned down" is false.
Yeah, I'd come across this, too -- and just remember reading about it: it was sacked. Some records were burned. This is obviously a bad thing but it's not burned to the ground, it's not murder.
Ironically, in a post on historical revisionism/misinformation, you fall prey to a bit: in Niemöller's original quote, the communists came first — as, in fact, happened in Germany in 1933. (He then listed Social Democrats, Trade Unionists and *then* Jews.) But this has been distorted and misquoted over the years to seem more politically correct (to a late 20th century audience, not a contemporary one): Jews were moved first (since the Jews were the central victims of the Holocaust, the quote feels wrong if it doesn't list them first—but it didn't); Communists were moved later (as here) or, often, omitted altogether (since in America, we *like* going for the Communists!). Various groups are sometimes added. Etc. For more see Peter Novick's book, THE HOLOCAUST IN AMERICAN LIFE, p. 221.
To be clear, I'm not blaming you for getting this wrong—it's widely misquoted & easy to do & usually, I suspect, done without ill intent. But I thought I'd correct the record, given your topic!
That's so weird! I remembered it as communists but then when I looked it up, Jewish came first and I was surprised because the communist targeting came first... Let me change it and thanks for letting me know.
Historical revisionism has, of course, become rampant in this age of dis- and misinformation where everyone can simply claim anything. It's yet another symptom of postmodern deconstructivism because just as it has destroyed biology ("Trans women are women" and all that insanity) it has also destroyed history (the Nazis specifically targeting "trans people" in the 1930s is just ludicrous). And so everybody can be the Ministry of Truth. Very Orwellian indeed.
I had no idea that the propensity to swallow and perpetuate false narratives was so widespread, until I entered this debate. I have never encountered such dishonesty on such a scale, and I have lived a very long time.
It does seem as if every movement and identity will be co-opted before we’re through.
I mean, it would be tremendously advantageous if activists could enshrine "And then they came for the trans activists..." because it would invoke a moral imperative (must defend this group against any challenges or there goes everything else we hold dear!) and would help cover up how this movement has nothing in common with civil-rights movements or other oppressed groups (is not oppressed, is an entirely manufactured group)
Yep. Exactly, if our pushback doesn’t work this year I bet by next year it will be added to that quote…
After the Second World War Pravda started running stories about how Russians had invented EVERYTHING. Brave people joked that eventually they would identify 'Igor' or 'Boris' as the inventor of the wheel. The TRAliban have been studying historical propaganda & disinformation. And China, Eastern Europe, Russia and North Korea have leapt on board.
Does it matter if she was killed by the Nazis or not? It seems to me that it's likely she was killed either in 1933 or later, but the Nazis killed loads of people (including two whole generations of my own family), so that's not surprising. Had trans people existed in the way they do now, it's obvious that the Nazis would have killed them - and that would have been terrible. But it doesn't have any bearing on the arguments today. "Trans rights" trumping those of women and girls is wrong, whatever Hitler might have thought about it.
I think it matters what really happened, whatever happened. And it's not obvious that the Nazis targeted transsexuals, unlike their clear targeting and murder of homosexuals. Interesting convo here (not definitive): https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8mpebv/were_there_any_transgender_people_in_the_holocaust/
Thanks. That's really interesting and I stand probably corrected.
I stupidly commented after reading the first few paragraphs of your post, thinking it short. Then I realised I'd missed the main thrust of your argument!
It matters because they are re-writing history, including Lesbian history. (We should not have to worry they will appropriate us when we're dead.) And HE was not a woman.
I so agree. It is outrageous. The trans cult is claiming everyone possible, yet is a fairly recent phenomenon and does not exist in reality any more than Rachel Dolezal is "trans-Black."
We may never know what happened to Dora, but it's pretty clear that no one was killed during the raid. See http://www.hirschfeld.in-berlin.de/institut/en/exil/exil_02.html; also "Nazi students raid institute on sex," New York Times, May 7, 1933 (page 12). Some of the staff stayed on after the raid, and the building was repurposed for more Nazi-friendly uses. Books and other materials were hauled away and later burned, but the statement that the institute was "burned down" is false.
Yeah, I'd come across this, too -- and just remember reading about it: it was sacked. Some records were burned. This is obviously a bad thing but it's not burned to the ground, it's not murder.
Ironically, in a post on historical revisionism/misinformation, you fall prey to a bit: in Niemöller's original quote, the communists came first — as, in fact, happened in Germany in 1933. (He then listed Social Democrats, Trade Unionists and *then* Jews.) But this has been distorted and misquoted over the years to seem more politically correct (to a late 20th century audience, not a contemporary one): Jews were moved first (since the Jews were the central victims of the Holocaust, the quote feels wrong if it doesn't list them first—but it didn't); Communists were moved later (as here) or, often, omitted altogether (since in America, we *like* going for the Communists!). Various groups are sometimes added. Etc. For more see Peter Novick's book, THE HOLOCAUST IN AMERICAN LIFE, p. 221.
To be clear, I'm not blaming you for getting this wrong—it's widely misquoted & easy to do & usually, I suspect, done without ill intent. But I thought I'd correct the record, given your topic!
That's so weird! I remembered it as communists but then when I looked it up, Jewish came first and I was surprised because the communist targeting came first... Let me change it and thanks for letting me know.
Fantastically put, bravo!
Historical revisionism has, of course, become rampant in this age of dis- and misinformation where everyone can simply claim anything. It's yet another symptom of postmodern deconstructivism because just as it has destroyed biology ("Trans women are women" and all that insanity) it has also destroyed history (the Nazis specifically targeting "trans people" in the 1930s is just ludicrous). And so everybody can be the Ministry of Truth. Very Orwellian indeed.