I actually guffawed at your description of him in part one. Year round allergies, curly hair, glasses, Dries van Noten- you didn’t have to do him like that! 🤣 (You did).
My favorite was when he stopped his furious intellectual onanism for long enough to tell on himself: “I don't believe it's true or useful...to say that women are oppress…
I actually guffawed at your description of him in part one. Year round allergies, curly hair, glasses, Dries van Noten- you didn’t have to do him like that! 🤣 (You did).
My favorite was when he stopped his furious intellectual onanism for long enough to tell on himself: “I don't believe it's true or useful...to say that women are oppressed on the basis of sex.” 😅
This whole cultural moment has really made me think...have feminists just been really bad at getting out the message of what feminism even is, or is it more that the educational system is just atrocious, or else that anti-feminist propagandists got to men first? Because a lot of men seem to have zero understanding of the reality or history of the oppression of women. I studied Latin in school (the best decision ever- constantly paying dividends) and I think it gave me a good conceptualization of ancient cultures, how they formed, how society transitioned from hunter gatherers and became settled and civilizations (cities) developed and the ones that grew large were based on bands of male warriors hoarding recourses and oppressing slave classes to physically build the city and birth the laborers etc. Lots of people seem to never have considered this and seem to think women being oppressed is just a given. A fact of nature (it isn’t. I also have studied many different animal species and inspecting how their gender dynamics exist and evolve and how this impacts which sex is on top of either is complicated and enlightening).
Discussions on trans issues often lead to the reality and therefore eventually history of female oppression in the end, and some men are surprisingly encouraging in that they seem to finally GET it and even declare themselves pro-feminism for the first time in their lives (I’ve spoken to men who previously were suspicious or even resentful of feminism who apparently had never thought through what it was or why it exists- or else just needed to realize that feminism could acknowledge sex and be based in reality).
Other men, surprisingly often the ones who CALL themselves feminists, seem to balk at the history of female sex-based oppression up to present, and insist that feminism is some sort of “yay girl-feels” movement instituted to help women wear pant suits and wax our p*ssies with a smile on our faces, or whatever the fuck they assumed feminism was supposed to be for.
Nowadays when men say “I’m a feminist” I say “Really? Why?” (Most panic 😱😳 like a small creature caught in a trap). I tend to not give them any help and let them calm down enough to express what they mean- some have actually really interesting, intelligent, or compassionate replies.
But we’ve all met our fair share of the externally ideologically appealing Bruces...and sadly there’s nothing we can do for them, other than report them to The Hague on charges of torture against written language. 😆🙄
Emily: "... have feminists just been really bad at getting out the message of what feminism even is ..."
Given that there are at least 23 "sects" under the feminism umbrella, there's some justification for your suggestion, for the view that too many feminists are their own worst enemies:
You ever read "Professing Feminism" by Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge? Can't say that I have myself, but this review of it seems to cut to the somewhat rotten heart of it:
"The authors, however, demonstrate that these problems have existed since their ideology’s inception, and were particularly common within Women Studies programs. The authors wrote of the isolationist attitude that dominates many of the programs, along with a virulent anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment driving many of the professors, staff and students."
No doubt that feminism has some justified grievances. But getting a hearing for them isn't much helped by that "virulent, anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment".
I actually guffawed at your description of him in part one. Year round allergies, curly hair, glasses, Dries van Noten- you didn’t have to do him like that! 🤣 (You did).
My favorite was when he stopped his furious intellectual onanism for long enough to tell on himself: “I don't believe it's true or useful...to say that women are oppressed on the basis of sex.” 😅
This whole cultural moment has really made me think...have feminists just been really bad at getting out the message of what feminism even is, or is it more that the educational system is just atrocious, or else that anti-feminist propagandists got to men first? Because a lot of men seem to have zero understanding of the reality or history of the oppression of women. I studied Latin in school (the best decision ever- constantly paying dividends) and I think it gave me a good conceptualization of ancient cultures, how they formed, how society transitioned from hunter gatherers and became settled and civilizations (cities) developed and the ones that grew large were based on bands of male warriors hoarding recourses and oppressing slave classes to physically build the city and birth the laborers etc. Lots of people seem to never have considered this and seem to think women being oppressed is just a given. A fact of nature (it isn’t. I also have studied many different animal species and inspecting how their gender dynamics exist and evolve and how this impacts which sex is on top of either is complicated and enlightening).
Discussions on trans issues often lead to the reality and therefore eventually history of female oppression in the end, and some men are surprisingly encouraging in that they seem to finally GET it and even declare themselves pro-feminism for the first time in their lives (I’ve spoken to men who previously were suspicious or even resentful of feminism who apparently had never thought through what it was or why it exists- or else just needed to realize that feminism could acknowledge sex and be based in reality).
Other men, surprisingly often the ones who CALL themselves feminists, seem to balk at the history of female sex-based oppression up to present, and insist that feminism is some sort of “yay girl-feels” movement instituted to help women wear pant suits and wax our p*ssies with a smile on our faces, or whatever the fuck they assumed feminism was supposed to be for.
Nowadays when men say “I’m a feminist” I say “Really? Why?” (Most panic 😱😳 like a small creature caught in a trap). I tend to not give them any help and let them calm down enough to express what they mean- some have actually really interesting, intelligent, or compassionate replies.
But we’ve all met our fair share of the externally ideologically appealing Bruces...and sadly there’s nothing we can do for them, other than report them to The Hague on charges of torture against written language. 😆🙄
Emily: "... have feminists just been really bad at getting out the message of what feminism even is ..."
Given that there are at least 23 "sects" under the feminism umbrella, there's some justification for your suggestion, for the view that too many feminists are their own worst enemies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movements_and_ideologies
You ever read "Professing Feminism" by Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge? Can't say that I have myself, but this review of it seems to cut to the somewhat rotten heart of it:
"The authors, however, demonstrate that these problems have existed since their ideology’s inception, and were particularly common within Women Studies programs. The authors wrote of the isolationist attitude that dominates many of the programs, along with a virulent anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment driving many of the professors, staff and students."
https://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2009/07/27/professing-feminism-noh/
No doubt that feminism has some justified grievances. But getting a hearing for them isn't much helped by that "virulent, anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment".