A couple of weeks ago, after years of being fairly terfy on Facebook, I posted Janice Turner’s article: What went wrong at the Tavistock clinic for trans teenagers? And I wrote for the first time publicly under my own name why I had become interested in this issue—and why my concerns led me to leave my job:
[Edited: Was trying to respond to this comment of Francie's: "but Martha Nussbaum is not anti-trans at all... her takedown wasn’t taking down transgender theory, it was taking down Judith butler’s particular approach to it" - which she may have deleted. I could open a reply via email but couldn't find when searching the thread itself...]
What's 'anti-trans'? Is it 'anti-trans' if you think people who identify as trans should be safe from violence and harassment and protected against discrimination on basis of gender-nonconformity in employment and housing (but still categorized by their natal sex, where sex matters) but you *don't* think that women and males-who-identify-as-women are sharing an experience of being women and you think that pretending otherwise is not a social good (nor an interpersonal kindness, in the long run)? That must be what you mean by 'anti-trans,' otherwise it wouldn't apply. But it's strange to be labeled that way by a tiny subset of people who adopted a set of fantastical beliefs about sex and gender.
Excellent. And the Ryan Grim piece linked was fascinating. If and when the tide turns, I wonder what all of the silently complicit will have to say. I suppose they’ll just move along, relieved that it didn’t cost them anything but their integrity.
Eliza, I'm less forgiving than you are of people's motives for supporting bad ideas. Like that doctor who was famous for giving lobotomies in the middle of the last century, all of the supporters of trans B.S. have a personal, emotional or financial investment in the bad trans ideas we are grappling with. EVERYONE should understand that children should be given an opportunity to outgrow their trans feelings. The alternative is obvious: a lifetime of being a medical patient who is neither fully male nor fully female -- that is not a prescription for a happy life. Furthermore, the fact that the child doesn't have the right to make the decision for the adult yet to come should be clear to everyone. But trans activists have done a very good job of convincing everyone that trans kids suffer more than trans adults. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence of that.
I am a gay man, and my "trans" period lasted only about ten minutes. I wasn't fully grown, and I was about the size of my mother. She was out of the house. I went into her bedroom and tried on one of her dresses and looked at myself in the mirror. I felt a momentary thrill to have transformed myself into a woman so easily, but then I ripped the dress off and never did it again. That was it. I never felt the impulse again. Thank God.
I left Facebook cos what nauseated me most was the way my feminist friends would go ape-shit in the comments to abandon our sex whenever the issue would come up.
It was the self-declared feminists who fought me when I posted pix of Dyke March baseball bats...they would not admit any male pattern violence could exist in a self-identified transwoman. Forget about defending female sports... there was no one worse than "defenders of JK Rowling" oh, and... "Have you read Judith Butler? She's great." 😆
These were friends who were big-time, vocal feminists. .. and they used men's rights talking points when convenient...including saying lesbians are just as violent as men.
Sorry to ramble...I appreciate your writing and am glad the tide may be turning, thanks to your efforts and the efforts of others who are speaking out with such clarity.
Completely agree. I get so little reaction to my posts now. Clearly even unfollowed by my lefty friends so have respected my opinion before ...until this.
Every person I know or know of who is in their 20s or 30s (or even older) who has chosen integrity over career in this fight has had to leave their job, sometimes their beloved chosen career. Academics, journalists, non-profit movers and shakers, the list goes on. The costs are very, very high. We only have one life, and if people even get as far as weighing the risks of moving beyond the Danger Zone, they must balance integrity and speaking the truth with other survival needs, such as feeding their families. This is why so many people must be anonymous, because the dangers are very real. For me, this does not excuse the cowardice and irresponsibility of those who will not even examine the issue and experience the resulting cognitive dissonance--it is shameful, given that it is CHILDREN our society has decided to subject to this ideology and experimentation. But it does explain what is happening. These people are not bad. I know them well. They are just ordinary humans, trying to live their lives the best they can. The thing is, more people need to be extraordinary, as Eliza is. More people need to talk to more people, and more people need to put their voices out there. You will make Eliza safer if you do this, even if you cannot do it publicly. More importantly, you will be another ripple in the tide changing towards ending this madness. My millennial-aged friends cannot risk their jobs in education, science, or healthcare, but they can have one-to-one conversations with friends. Do what you can! Take SOME risk! In my case, the lost friends have hurt, but my true friends are sticking with me. Maybe they'll eventually move towards educating themselves and taking actions. For those near or past retirement, face the lesser costs than younger people and take a public stand. Every. Single. Voice. Counts.
I am strongly moved by the following: "Who wants to find themselves on the outside of a narrative that's captured the public imagination? Who wants to be tarred as hateful for their questions and doubts that come from no such place?"
I'm currently feeling pushed out of my town because of my GC views. And truly, I thought my positions weren't extreme. What I find extreme is the fact that I'm sent a barrage of hateful messages and images for speaking truth that was accepted as such up until a few years ago. It's a lonely position to be in, and I completely understand why it's easier for people to drop their critical thinking skills at the door of this topic rather than engage.
Working at a non-profit in the last ten years has been a day in day out re-enactment of that Andrea Dworkin quote about how many women resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of misogyny. Now that includes being conscious of the concept of misogyny!
Good for you posting under your real name! That takes guts! 💪
I am SO TIRED of being told I'm the one making things harder for myself because I'm THINKING or FEELING. Isn't that exactly what so many are complaining about when we have another shooting or women lose their right to choose? "What were they THINKING?" "Have they no FEELING for their fellow human beings?" "Be kind!" "Educate yourself!"
You know what is really being said when someone tells you you're making things hard on yourself because you're thinking? "I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT THIS." or "I DON'T WANT TO FEEL ANYTHING ABOUT THIS."
And sometimes it's because people are comfortable and don't want things to change because change is hard. It's also extremely difficult at times to live in integrity with one's values because it means going against societal values which can make one unpopular -- social ostracization is a very human fear.
Yikes- I followed you because your bio said you were a grad student studying feminism and gender, like me. Didn’t realize what I had stumbled upon. Have you read Whipping Girl?
Im a cis woman, and have always been a passionate feminist. I used to not fully understand a lot of the transgender discourse- until my ex partner came out as a trans woman. I researched what I could, which was illuminating, but mostly I listened to her. The pain she felt. Her stories about growing up and knowing deep down she was different. How she isolated herself and let her body rot for 20 years because she was so ashamed of her male body, so disgusted by it - it felt so wrong to her. When she came out, it was astonishing how much lighter she was, brighter. She wanted to live again. My best friend in the world, the partner who I had spent so much time trying to help to no avail, wanted to live again. Because she felt, finally, like she could be who she really was. the way she describes it, when she first let herself wear a dress and look in the mirror and see herself as the woman she wanted to be, the fog that had settled in during puberty suddenly lifted for the first time, after 20 years. Through our relationship, I let myself and my notions of feminism, which were strongly held. be challenged and deepened with her. I recommend if you have the chance to even talk to a trans woman, you listen. You don’t have to understand everything. But please jsut try to empathize - trans bodies are so horrifically abused and marginalized in so many ways and they deserve at least an attempt at empathy. Trans women and cis women are NOT the same, their experiences are different, but they are both women. They are both targeted by the patriarchy for their “inferior” femininity. Transmisogyny is simply misogyny and the scapegoating of femininity and womanhood- you are, like it or not, upholding the patriarchy with your TERFy language. Unsubscribed for my own mental health because reading such things breaks my heart - but I do hope you read Whipping Girl. It changed everything I thought I knew. Take care.
I hope everyone has seen Bill Maher's segment on this issue. Although a few of his jokes are sexist, he nonetheless understands the issue better than most people, and he makes very good points:
[Edited: Was trying to respond to this comment of Francie's: "but Martha Nussbaum is not anti-trans at all... her takedown wasn’t taking down transgender theory, it was taking down Judith butler’s particular approach to it" - which she may have deleted. I could open a reply via email but couldn't find when searching the thread itself...]
What's 'anti-trans'? Is it 'anti-trans' if you think people who identify as trans should be safe from violence and harassment and protected against discrimination on basis of gender-nonconformity in employment and housing (but still categorized by their natal sex, where sex matters) but you *don't* think that women and males-who-identify-as-women are sharing an experience of being women and you think that pretending otherwise is not a social good (nor an interpersonal kindness, in the long run)? That must be what you mean by 'anti-trans,' otherwise it wouldn't apply. But it's strange to be labeled that way by a tiny subset of people who adopted a set of fantastical beliefs about sex and gender.
Excellent. And the Ryan Grim piece linked was fascinating. If and when the tide turns, I wonder what all of the silently complicit will have to say. I suppose they’ll just move along, relieved that it didn’t cost them anything but their integrity.
Ohh I know many of these... it's intensely infuriating. I chalk them down as being the sheep of life. It's depressing.
Eliza, I'm less forgiving than you are of people's motives for supporting bad ideas. Like that doctor who was famous for giving lobotomies in the middle of the last century, all of the supporters of trans B.S. have a personal, emotional or financial investment in the bad trans ideas we are grappling with. EVERYONE should understand that children should be given an opportunity to outgrow their trans feelings. The alternative is obvious: a lifetime of being a medical patient who is neither fully male nor fully female -- that is not a prescription for a happy life. Furthermore, the fact that the child doesn't have the right to make the decision for the adult yet to come should be clear to everyone. But trans activists have done a very good job of convincing everyone that trans kids suffer more than trans adults. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence of that.
I am a gay man, and my "trans" period lasted only about ten minutes. I wasn't fully grown, and I was about the size of my mother. She was out of the house. I went into her bedroom and tried on one of her dresses and looked at myself in the mirror. I felt a momentary thrill to have transformed myself into a woman so easily, but then I ripped the dress off and never did it again. That was it. I never felt the impulse again. Thank God.
I love that no one responded.
Changing times.
I left Facebook cos what nauseated me most was the way my feminist friends would go ape-shit in the comments to abandon our sex whenever the issue would come up.
It was the self-declared feminists who fought me when I posted pix of Dyke March baseball bats...they would not admit any male pattern violence could exist in a self-identified transwoman. Forget about defending female sports... there was no one worse than "defenders of JK Rowling" oh, and... "Have you read Judith Butler? She's great." 😆
These were friends who were big-time, vocal feminists. .. and they used men's rights talking points when convenient...including saying lesbians are just as violent as men.
Sorry to ramble...I appreciate your writing and am glad the tide may be turning, thanks to your efforts and the efforts of others who are speaking out with such clarity.
Completely agree. I get so little reaction to my posts now. Clearly even unfollowed by my lefty friends so have respected my opinion before ...until this.
Every person I know or know of who is in their 20s or 30s (or even older) who has chosen integrity over career in this fight has had to leave their job, sometimes their beloved chosen career. Academics, journalists, non-profit movers and shakers, the list goes on. The costs are very, very high. We only have one life, and if people even get as far as weighing the risks of moving beyond the Danger Zone, they must balance integrity and speaking the truth with other survival needs, such as feeding their families. This is why so many people must be anonymous, because the dangers are very real. For me, this does not excuse the cowardice and irresponsibility of those who will not even examine the issue and experience the resulting cognitive dissonance--it is shameful, given that it is CHILDREN our society has decided to subject to this ideology and experimentation. But it does explain what is happening. These people are not bad. I know them well. They are just ordinary humans, trying to live their lives the best they can. The thing is, more people need to be extraordinary, as Eliza is. More people need to talk to more people, and more people need to put their voices out there. You will make Eliza safer if you do this, even if you cannot do it publicly. More importantly, you will be another ripple in the tide changing towards ending this madness. My millennial-aged friends cannot risk their jobs in education, science, or healthcare, but they can have one-to-one conversations with friends. Do what you can! Take SOME risk! In my case, the lost friends have hurt, but my true friends are sticking with me. Maybe they'll eventually move towards educating themselves and taking actions. For those near or past retirement, face the lesser costs than younger people and take a public stand. Every. Single. Voice. Counts.
I am strongly moved by the following: "Who wants to find themselves on the outside of a narrative that's captured the public imagination? Who wants to be tarred as hateful for their questions and doubts that come from no such place?"
I'm currently feeling pushed out of my town because of my GC views. And truly, I thought my positions weren't extreme. What I find extreme is the fact that I'm sent a barrage of hateful messages and images for speaking truth that was accepted as such up until a few years ago. It's a lonely position to be in, and I completely understand why it's easier for people to drop their critical thinking skills at the door of this topic rather than engage.
Working at a non-profit in the last ten years has been a day in day out re-enactment of that Andrea Dworkin quote about how many women resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of misogyny. Now that includes being conscious of the concept of misogyny!
Good for you posting under your real name! That takes guts! 💪
I am SO TIRED of being told I'm the one making things harder for myself because I'm THINKING or FEELING. Isn't that exactly what so many are complaining about when we have another shooting or women lose their right to choose? "What were they THINKING?" "Have they no FEELING for their fellow human beings?" "Be kind!" "Educate yourself!"
You know what is really being said when someone tells you you're making things hard on yourself because you're thinking? "I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT THIS." or "I DON'T WANT TO FEEL ANYTHING ABOUT THIS."
And sometimes it's because people are comfortable and don't want things to change because change is hard. It's also extremely difficult at times to live in integrity with one's values because it means going against societal values which can make one unpopular -- social ostracization is a very human fear.
'Cis' is the slur they use for women they can't call TERFs.
Women are damned if we go along with it, and damned if we don't.
We are overwhelmingly the carers of children, so we must be disempowered, one way or another.
The enemy.
Or the conquered.
Thanks for this article - yup all we need to do is not think!
PS I'm not thinking about women called Karen either - who are no doubt quite fed up of Karenphobia
Yikes- I followed you because your bio said you were a grad student studying feminism and gender, like me. Didn’t realize what I had stumbled upon. Have you read Whipping Girl?
Im a cis woman, and have always been a passionate feminist. I used to not fully understand a lot of the transgender discourse- until my ex partner came out as a trans woman. I researched what I could, which was illuminating, but mostly I listened to her. The pain she felt. Her stories about growing up and knowing deep down she was different. How she isolated herself and let her body rot for 20 years because she was so ashamed of her male body, so disgusted by it - it felt so wrong to her. When she came out, it was astonishing how much lighter she was, brighter. She wanted to live again. My best friend in the world, the partner who I had spent so much time trying to help to no avail, wanted to live again. Because she felt, finally, like she could be who she really was. the way she describes it, when she first let herself wear a dress and look in the mirror and see herself as the woman she wanted to be, the fog that had settled in during puberty suddenly lifted for the first time, after 20 years. Through our relationship, I let myself and my notions of feminism, which were strongly held. be challenged and deepened with her. I recommend if you have the chance to even talk to a trans woman, you listen. You don’t have to understand everything. But please jsut try to empathize - trans bodies are so horrifically abused and marginalized in so many ways and they deserve at least an attempt at empathy. Trans women and cis women are NOT the same, their experiences are different, but they are both women. They are both targeted by the patriarchy for their “inferior” femininity. Transmisogyny is simply misogyny and the scapegoating of femininity and womanhood- you are, like it or not, upholding the patriarchy with your TERFy language. Unsubscribed for my own mental health because reading such things breaks my heart - but I do hope you read Whipping Girl. It changed everything I thought I knew. Take care.
I hope everyone has seen Bill Maher's segment on this issue. Although a few of his jokes are sexist, he nonetheless understands the issue better than most people, and he makes very good points:
https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/05/26/were-literally-experimenting-on-children-bill-maher-challenges-transgender-craze/
(The Daily Signal isn't the only place you can find the video.)