Behold! The ever-multiplying, ever-more baffling subtypes of trans: do you ever feel like you wouldn’t have dysphoria if the world wasn’t gendered this way? I love being trans, honestly. it’s who I am, and apart from this thing (and transphobia ahah) I love it.
One thought overwhelms all others when reading this: Holy shit what an absolutely massive wave of detransitioners we’re about to see within the next five years.
Sadly, I fear a wave of suicides will follow shortly thereafter. Gender activists will blame it all on "transphobia" and use it to entrench themselves even more.
The cognitive dissonance in these statements is astounding. It also sounds much like the tone of adolescent conversations I remember: the endless analysis of bodies, worry about wearing “the right clothes “, wanting to perform the behavior that might attract the crush of the month. I fear for this young cohort of women. They are going to be devastated when reality hits home.
100% agree. The difference is that now, because of how overwhelmingly saturated every aspect of culture is with this one particular lens and narrative, gender is the only way to understand and talk about these insecurities and concepts. And since this has become really the only "idiom" circulating that they have to try to understand their distress, transition becomes the only path they think there is out of it, no matter how much of an awkward fit and stretch it is to apply these concepts to their own personal experiences.
And it is quite obvious from their posts that reality is already knocking on the door of their minds. It's knocking louder and louder but they hide and don't answer. Will they answer before the door is broken?
Because the whole genderism just confuse young ppl, it‘s that simple. It is the confusing ideology that plants images of themselves in their mind. And the sm pressure.
And are these girls really that different? What teenager hasn’t felt uncomfortable in their body at some point? What percentage of adults remember their youth as teenage perfection, fitting in with the desired crowd? As if everyone else has it all figured out?
Not at all; in fact, many of them are highly feminine and 'gender conforming', but they see feminity in women as shameful, and like they can only express themselves as they are (and be celebrated for it) as 'men'.
Adults have all decided to conveniently forget that we all hated our bodies during puberty, and we all didn't enjoy that time, and that we always knew that highly feminine little boys would probably grow up to be gay.
This article (which was insightful and interesting to read) brought up so many thoughts in me, which, unfortunately, I'll have to rush through because I have to get to bed.
Setting aside the obvious confusion and contradictions, I see our attitude towards nature being turned on ourselves. Nature is there for us to manipulate, and now our bodies are nothing more than another part of nature to be manipulated to our whim. The whole idea that we have one body that we must preserve and treat carefully has gone out the window. The body is now our own private Frankenstein monster to tamper with as we please.
I am reminded of an article I read by a woman who had purple dye injected into her eyes to make her look something like a demon (at least, that's how she appeared to me). For that woman, her body was there simply to be manipulated. Coloring your eyes may seem similar to tattoos (just another kind of body art), but it isn't because it is such a basic organ. Unfortunately, she got a crackpot to inject the dye (who else would do it?), and she was in danger of going blind.
In the last three months I had cataract surgery on my eyes. Those were the first operations I have ever had, and I delayed them as long as possible. Altering my natural state terrifies me (as it should).
Trans people, I think, can't make a distinction between what is superficial (the skin) and what is an important part of their bodies and must be preserved (the organs, the ability reproduce, etc.).
And what about one's future self? I have read about trans people who developed dementia as they got older, and wondered why they didn't look like the selves they remembered from their youth. (People with dementia tend to remember their youths better than their later years.)
One thing which is certain is that trans people live in a Never Never land of identity confusion. In my case, I hammered away at my identity for my entire life, trying to refine it, trying to figure out who I was. These trans people like to do the opposite: They throw their identity up into the wind like so much confetti and don't worry about where it lands. They are self-experimenters.
There was one more thought I had which has flown out of my head. Tomorrow I'll add it to this comment if I remember it. Gotta go.
It seems to me not surprising that people who self identify as "trans" and "non-binary" people, who live in a state of permanent cognitive dissonance in denying the reality of sex, are prone to more frequent and earlier onset of Subjective Cognitive Impairment.
SCI is stage 2 of Alzheimer's syndrome, where the person knows something is off, even though it's not (yet) evident to others. SCI follows an asymptomatic Stage 1 lasting around 10 years: with physical signs of brain degeneration but no experienced mental or behavioral change.
(Stage 3, "Mild" Cognitive Impairment, is a complete misnomer for a disease process already under way for at least 20 years. Stage 4 is full blown Alzheimer's.)
Given that the cognitive dissonance of people who self identify as "trans" or "non-binary" is itself a form of cognitive impairment that makes endless difficult demands on brain function, plus social demands on others not necessarily willing to comply, this would appear to set the scene for anxiety and depression, and further brain deterioration.
Reversion to an earlier and less demanding sense of identity as Alzheimer's progresses, probably comes as a relief.
Alzheimer's syndrome is now recognised by a range of medical specialists as a lifestyle disease which is highly treatable: which can be stopped and even reversed (if caught soon enough) by a range of lifestyle interventions not involving drugs.
I was just talking to a friend about how casually it seems some people speak and act about medical interventions. They seem oblivious to the risks inherent in any medical intervention let alone hormones & surgeries.
I got the answer from my pretty feminine teenage, trans-identified daughter the other night (a follow-up discussion - well, argument, wherein she cemented ideas that had previously been more murky). She noted that she MUST TRANSITION ASAP (she'll be 18 in a few months). I had asked why she doesn't at least try, perhaps in college, to live as a female and see if she can be comfortable, as she at least agreed with me that it would be better if she didn't have to medically alter her body. She said she cannot live as a female for any time period because, if she tries to live as a woman for any time period, her friends who currently believe she is male will "treat her differently," and her new friends will then also know her as female and "treat her differently," and she doesn't want to be "treated like a girl." She said, even if she ultimately tells them she is trans, and then transitions, they will still, at least subconsciously, treat her differently than if they believe she is biologically male. (I pressed her for what this means, particularly since she has insisted that she, and all good "allies" treat someone like they ask to be treated and actually think of them as the sex they say they are, even if they were not born that way. She had to admit that, at least subconsciously, even she treats her openly trans friends differently than biological females or males.)
When asked what it means to be treated as male or female, she could not be specific, but was clear that she doesn't want whatever being treated as female means.
She also agreed, when I noted that the mixed bag of how people are treated differently based on their sex, might include some things she would like better if people treated her as a female. That is, she knows there are some things about being "treated like a girl" that she likes. However, to her, on balance, being treated like a gay, flamboyant male is preferable to be treated like a female.
She also, like I see from the first girl you quoted, gained whiplash, as she moved back and forth through arguments. She tried to say how unimportant one's genitals are, and how unimportant the body parts one is born with are (as opposed to body parts one creates through surgical or chemical means). However, when I asked if she feels it's important that people believe she was born with male genitals, she agreed.
Further, once she has a mastectomy (a word she finds offensive for some reason), she said she can wear little tank tops or whatever she wants and still pass as male. She has previously mentioned, like the person you quote, that she might wear some make-up and maybe even a dress, once she can pass as male (after mastectomy and testosterone). So, like that person, she wants to express her feminine side, but not as a female!!!
Bottom line, she wants the world to think of her as male - not masculine, but male. She doesn't know what that means, but knows she doesn't want to be thought of as female. That seems to be the driving force behind transition for her (and, apparently, many young women).
When your daughter speaks to you about how she is treated as a male, have her repeat everything she said, but replace "male" with "human being". That's what she really wants- to be respected as a human being, not a second class citizen. When you say "she wants to take advantage of any of the benefits this movement can afford her", those benefits are the legislatively codified respect and support she is receiving from the powerful LGBTQ+ political lobby, backed by corporations using allyship to market their products, and social media influencers who virtue-signal their devotion to boost their image. ALL of that support will disappear soon, as people become increasingly disgusted by the overreach of cancel culture, and the incessant demands to comply with new language changes and hate speech laws. Trans people are assholes. Most people think it, but few are brave enough to say it out loud.
Your daughter needs to know her crutch won't hold up on the shifting sands of public sentiment. At its core, trans ideology is a male supremacy movement, and she will always be an outsider. Feminism, on the other hand, has survived despite hundreds of years of resistance. If she can learn to embrace her womanhood and fight for herself as a woman, she will find a community that is steadfast in its cause, and accepting of her and her individual choices.
"ALL of that support will disappear soon, as people become increasingly disgusted by the overreach of cancel culture, and the incessant demands to comply with new language changes and hate speech laws."
I deeply hope that your vision comes to pass! I fear that the only people who will perceive cancel culture as overreach are people in the older generations who did not previously recognize what has been happening. Gen Z represents the future and they are another matter.
That's true. And what is sad and infuriating about that choice is that young women choose transition over feminism because 3rd wave feminists are such dick-pandering handmaidens that there is really no empowerment or support to be had in that environment. Libfems treat lesbians like shit, while they continue to perform the same sad gendered servitude to men that our mothers and grandmothers did, under the guise that "doing it all" is a legitimate goal, and somehow noble. Choice feminism is bullshit. Subjecting oneself to oppressive beauty, weight, and lifestyle standards is not liberation. Shopping, cooking, cleaning, and social scheduling for the whole household when both parents work is not the pinnacle of success- it's a complete capitulation that betrays all women, and everything we've worked for. THIS is what young girls are running from- a life of being preyed upon and used by men. Radical feminism is the only thing that can save them.
We need to aggressively SUPPORT the girls who instinctively reject the superficial narcissism of influencer culture, while making it clear to them that trans ideology is just the flip side of the same destructive coin. They need to understand how to exist in a complicated world without following a trend or reinventing themselves. They're scared. That's understandable. We can think back to our own adolescence, to the tactics that WE used to survive, and show these girls there are a better ways to develop your character and secure your own space in the world that don't involve cutting off your breasts and calling yourself Kai.
Thanks for sharing this. You sound like you’re having really good conversations that challenge her in ways no one else will. She also seems engaged by it which suggests she respects your thoughts and opinions. I give you parents so much credit for this work.
Thank you for sharing all of this. First off, I have no answers and can't pretend to. I do have questions which if they are off the mark or ridiculous I apologize in advance! Has your daughter considered how this is a temporary movement that she is participating? If one looks at what the pressing zeitgeist periods are over the span of a say 90 year lifespan, nothing lasts a full 90 years, and I think it includes this too. Her statement may be rendered meaningless in the future. If she was alive in the 1910's the woman's right to vote would have been the pressing issue, and didn't include changing ones body in a way that would be carried into the next movement of the times! I just feel like one aspect of all of this "true trans" medicalization is sacrificing young people in the name of society can't possibly get passed gender stereotypes sufficiently enough. It could be argued her transitioning would slow the process of us being able to be more accurately seen for who we are, not just a stereotype. How powerful it would be if she said, you know what, all of the ways you've seen me and understood me, those are qualities that are actually under the umbrella of cis woman and I want to broaden what that can be. It's like she wants to transition to a cis boy that is allowed to express femininity . . . why not support a cis boy in doing that. THAT could be her contribution. Anyways, these are just thoughts, and may not be useful, but I again appreciate you sharing and of course wish our culture didn't treat adolescents as a time for all kids to actively search the soul to consider whether or not to have a gender/sex change :(
You've said nothing ridiculous, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comments. My daughter doesn't much want to be part of this (or any) movement. Rather, she wants to take advantage of any of the benefits this movement can afford her. I don't think she would sacrifice her body to prove that cis-males can be effeminate. In fact, she was inspired to express herself this way by her respect for various effeminate males, who she thinks are the height of cool, and she just wants to emulate them (much like I wanted to emulate Fonzie as a kid - but I didn't decide to pretend I was male and mutilate my body - perhaps I wasn't a big enough fan - read sarcasm).
I have clearly explained to her that this is a "trend" and society is providing mis-information to people, which is misleading them into thinking this is something to do if you feel uncomfortable in your skin as a teen (or, insanely, as a small child). She then says I'm saying she's been "brainwashed," and is offended by the idea of herself as being stupid enough to be brainwashed. I've never used that word with her but, yeah, it is brainwashing. However, I made clear to her that many thousands of highly educated adults have been misled in this same way (some into transitioning and the rest into just believing the ideology). I noted that our president seems to believe some of this stuff (to the extent he isn't just courting votes, which I don't think he would outright lie for, so he must believe this stuff at least a little bit), and that she is not stupid for being drawn in by all this. She's just a kid!
In the end, the fantasy of both eschewing all the challenges of womanhood, even giving up her sexuality (which she says she's fine with, it's not important to have sexual pleasure - this from a girl whose never been kissed), and explaining her emotional sensitivity, is too strong, particularly as society props it up and calls people like me bigoted fools. I hope this changes soon.
Thanks for following up. That gay boy thing, it's painful to learn these things but so important. Apparently way back when Broke Back Mountain came out it did well in the theaters because of teengage girls liking the fantasy of men with men and not having to ba a part of that. Which your daughter is somehow combining into I can be that gay boy AND I can not be a part of it because may have poor sexual functioning. There are tons of adults that are not at all informed on this topic, and the uninformed are letting kids down is my thinking. The 4 things that made me go what (probably more)?? Were the "assigned at birth" and that one can change their body out of being "truly" trans" and not requiring actual deep dysphoria the general public is led to believe is what is going on. The third was how it was a global movement that moced swiftly effecting laws, LOL that a movement would move so swiftly to BENEFIT women and children, truly laughable. I wish a movement and laws could move swiftly, behind the scenes even! to benefit women and children. And lastly a mom that explained that she pushed away her fears of medicalizing her child ("Rose" in a Wider Lens interview) because it was transphobic to fear it. THAT is scary, to not feel free to look at the medical applications done to your child because that makes you a bad person? What? I respect you so much for doing all you can, and working hard to hold it together I'm sure. This is why I think the age shouldn't be 18. One should not spend high school anticipating changing their sex. Even if a few would benefit too many are getting unneeded "care." Take care
This is very enlightening. My daughter has also said that she doesn’t want people to “see her as a girl”. I think this is common, and something all of us can understand to some degree - when I was young I also had a bad case of “not like other girls” which I now understand as an attempt to distance myself from negative stereotypes about girls and women. Of course, that requires believing those misogynistic stereotypes to begin with. (“Sure, those other girls are airheaded, appearance-obsessed, boy-crazy, lazy, frivolous, gold-digging pieces of fluff who can never accomplish anything but look at me, *I* am nothing like that!” 😣)
This really says something about the ways that our society treats young women - in a way that’s so intolerable that they feel they have to escape it by not being women. But of course those of us who are older understand that those stereotypes have nothing to do with what it truly means to be a woman, and that those stereotypes are limiting both for the people who embrace them AND the people who go out of their way to reject them.
Yes. My daughter has criticized exactly those air-headed, petty girls, as well as the media for portraying so many girls in that way. To me, that should inspire her to want to be a good role-model of an intellectual girl, a quirky girl with different interests (theatre, old movies, old music, etc.), and deep thinking and true compassion (not virtue-signaling). Instead, our daughters want to run away from girlhood/womanhood altogether, sacrificing their own bodies. Try as we might, we cannot seem to get them to realize that this is not the way to fight against unfair stereotypes and standards.
“When asked what it means to be treated as male or female, she could not be specific, but was clear that she doesn't want whatever being treated as female means” I mean, I completely agree with her! Being female in today’s society sucks. It used to be that heterosexual males were better than heterosexual females, nowadays, heterosexual males, homosexual males, trans males, trans females, black people, foreign people, immigrants, etc are all better than straight or gay girls. Women last. I completely understand why girls would want to opt out of oppression. Unfortunately, we can’t. We just have to fight it. But in the era of social media, doing socially unpopular things like that is extra hard.
What about hips though? Are there "gender affirming" procedures that can alter hips and pelvic tilt? Does your daughter realize that that will almost certainly always be a tell, even after a double mastectomy?
It is not ambiguous that my friends who have had double mastectomies because of cancer are female.
She has not. When pressed for details, she usually retreats to the argument "you're not respecting my wishes; my decisions for my life; I know what I want!" Then there's no more probing to be done.
None of them, in my experience, can explain what this means and they get incredibly reactive when pushed to. In the online communities, it comes up all the time: what does it mean to not feel female / to feel like a boy/man? And the answers are always: whatever it means to you, which may be different from whatever it means to anybody else, and you just know it.
If I had to guess, remembering myself as a teenager (and frankly, based on my experiences as an adult woman), what she means is: I want to be treated with respect. She wants to be respected. Not just by other women (women are often biased to respect males more, too), but especially by men. Romantically, too - I think teen girls are looking at their male peers and finding is impossible to imagine a relationship with them where the boy respects them.
Teenagers used to say that to their parents, but it was understood that the kid was indeed bound to do what the parents decided. The way that young people fail to recognize parental authority as valid is the worst trend. The Gen Z people I talk to have no respect for anyone who is "old." They think that they are right and moral superior to previous generations.
Yes. As I've mentioned elsewhere, part of the problem is that anything that is supported by a good amount of young people is considered morally superior. Since more young than older people fought for civil rights (plenty of older people did, but I'm speaking of percentages, and ignoring the fact that young people have the luxury of being able to do things like protesting while older people usually have more responsibilities like caring for children), and the same is true for gay rights, as well as protesting the Vietnam War, we now assume that, if the younger generation puts forth some notion, it must be right, morally superior and "progressive." Young people are marching to protect the climate and that's good! (Of course, most older people are on-board with that too, but we'll ignore that fact.) Thus, all the older women and men who are on-board with this gender garbage, even if they don't really understand it, think they are morally superior because they're in line with the young people. It's a foolish attempt at a short-cut to being right and staying relevant!
I was a civil rights activist from about 1963- 1995, as were many of my friends. Gen Z people are extremely disrespectful towards those of us who fought for their rights during times when minorities and women were experiencing real discrimination. Ageism has been a part of American culture for generations, but when I became active in the Second Wave womens movement I also read up on the First. Whatever happened to Gen Z during their socialization, we need to learn how to not repeat it.
It's also notable that, when you were fighting, it was actually a fight, with the mainstream being dead-set against what you were fighting for. It took courage. Nowadays, people "protest" but, with few exceptions, they're really just marching along, saying the things our government, large corporations, mainstream media, schools, colleges and universities, and many, if not most, of their friends and neighbors already agree with. They are both disrespectful of their elders and unappreciative of true struggle.
Hippiesq, your post has confirmed in my mind, more than anything else I have read, that transgenderism isn't just a fad among kids, but has become a cult. There is no sense at all in any of the things your daughter is saying, and she seems more concerned about her relationships with other cult members than she is concerned about herself. (I never knew that social pressure could be so toxic, given that I was never susceptible to it.)
Now, please don't see me as a kook for saying this, but I believe in reincarnation. (Actually, almost half the world believes in it, according to what I've read.) Some lives are sacrificed on mistakes, and those lives become a learning tool for the soul going forward. I'm saying this simply as a way to say that ultimately your daughter will be all right, even if she screws this life up. However, I encourage you to keep talking sense to her.
I don't think you're a kook. I think all things are possible in the universe, although I think some things are not possible within this particular experience that is life on Earth (such as being born in the "wrong body"). As I recognize that the broader universe contains everything all at once, it is likely that we experience many different "lives," whether on Earth in this form or in other ways we cannot even imagine.
I also agree that, in a very broad sense, she will be all right no matter what, given that any life can be worth living, and, if not exactly a "sacrifice," certainly a learning experience.
However, I will keep talking sense to her, and hope she will end up living a better life, and use the experience of having been conned by society into believing she is in the wrong body (preposterous) to make the rest of her life better and enrich her being and perhaps teach others. That is my philosophical/spiritual thought. My immediate emotional reaction to all this is anger at society, frustration with her, and sadness at how she can trust society over her own family and how things can go this wrong!
It's so refreshing to encounter someone who has a broader perspective. People see me as a kook for believing in reincarnation, while they ascribe to the prejudicial views of the ancient societies which gave rise to all the older religions.
The source that I believe in the most, the Seth Material, said that souls about to be reincarnated can choose the wrong gender because they are afraid of being the opposite gender (for whatever personal reason). But I don't think that's what is happening to your daughter. I believe she has joined a cult, and all cults try to separate their members from their families. She wouldn't have done that if she didn't have a rebellious element in her. Since I know nothing about you or her, I can't advise you (but I'll try). I would just suggest that you look back to your relationship and try to figure out if there were possible causes for her rebelliousness. Of course, she has her own innate personality, the personality she brought in with her, and her choices may have nothing to do with you or your relationship. Frankly, I'm commenting from the dark here, because I have never had children. I can only say that I hope that everything turns out all right for both of you.
I didn't mean to say that any life is a sacrifice, simply that some lives are devoted to learning one central lesson to the exclusion of others. I read of another "trans" young woman who allowed the cult to take her away from her mother, and then committed suicide. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to you or her. Let's hope that she comes to her senses, develops a normal (or at least productive) point of view, and that you become the best of friends as she grows into adulthood.
I always wonder what these women do for a living. In my 20s I was in college and then law school and then building a career. How I looked was just a backdrop to what I wanted to achieve. In those days professional women looked like sleeker versions of the men in our world; skirt suits and low heels, light makeup. I see a bit more appearance diversity among the younger women coming up now, but not a lot.
There are way more women in corporate law, women judges, than when I was coming up. Feminism was about equality of opportunity, having our own professional networks, forging our paths into the formerly all-male world of business and law. Looks were just a footnote to who we wanted to become.
Yeah, I see quite a few of them in retail. I suspect many more are HR workers running stupid workshops, enforcing ridiculous rules, and otherwise harassing hard working people .
I guess to paraphrase, Those who can'd do, transition.
What do they do for a living? The vast majority, nothing yet. They’re high school and college students. Not all, but many of them will realize once they get into the real world that this is nonsense.
So I know many, many TIFs bc I have all the risk factors and most of the ones I know personally are either unemployed or work in retail (even the ones who graduated with good degrees! Including some law school graduates!) Although my husband knew a few at one of his previous places of employment (in software) and mentioned that a large number of people he knew in high school and college are now trans.
But that is only related to being trans inasmuch as the same mental disorders associated with high rates of transition are also associated with low rates of employment. Or maybe the inability to find steady employment (or employment in a field you can proudly make part of your identity) contributes to the appeal of trans things.
Well, some trans women (men) are going into porn -- "women" with large breasts and male genitalia are apparently a thrill for some viewers. Some trans men (women) are also going into porn, but not so much.
What I have always wondered about is those men who get tattoos on the backs on their hands and on their necks. Who would hire them for anything except to move boxes around in a warehouse?
Lots of environmental services staff and techs (lab, pharm, radiology), heck even nurses and medical and nursing assistants, even doctors and nurse practitioners, have visible ink these days. I think enforcing a "no visible tattoos" rule like 20 years ago would lead to an even more serious staffing crisis than we currently face.
Perhaps. But a person who gets tattoos on portions of his body that can never be covered up is making a statement, and people have a right to interpret that statement and decide whether they want such a person working for them. One thing's for sure, I will run like hell if I ever encounter a person who has tattooed tears under his eyes.
For those without kids who feel helpless about this trend in girls, or even for those who do have girls of their own, here’s something simple you can start to do right away that will help: resist the urge to encourage them to focus on their appearance, clothes and accessories.
What do I mean? I mean, what’s the first thing out of your mouth when you run into your friend with the cute little daughter? It’s a comment about their appearance, clothes or accessories, isn’t it. And you don’t do that nearly as much or at all when you run into a friend with a little boy, do you.
The male gaze is created in our daughters’ minds starting very young.
I'd like to share a few thoughts on this. I tried so hard to follow the advice with my daughter who got pulled into this but has also desisted. It's not as easy or as effective as we'd like to hope it would be. First, I could not control the comments of other people and there were so many comments. Yes, I know that we need to create a culture where no one feels like these are comments they should be constantly making the little girls, but realistically it's not going to happen and i can't control it. I even remember telling my husband, "what am I supposed to do when somebody complements her luxe? Immediately tell her not to pay attention to that? Somehow downplay it? That's going to cause a holes bunch of other problems and self-esteem issues." I also found that if you have a daughter who is naturally drawn to stereo typically feminine things and who greatly enjoys makeup and dresses, pink and sparkly things, what she can end up absorbing from the anti-princess, anti-stereotypically "girly" messaging that is out there is that there's something wrong with her for liking those things. That there's something shameful in liking femininity and stereo typically "girly" things. I don't want to go into all the details because those are personal and this is not the place, but I just wanted to offer that other perspective. I just wish it wasn't all so complicated.
So. Many. Comments. Oh I hear you. We can only appeal to our community and try to teach our daughters what’s really important about them that people will be drawn to.
I think there are dangers in both directions, here. I always believed in this philosophy. I rarely commented much on my daughters’ appearances because I didn’t want them to think it was the most important thing about them. I personally am also not really that appearance-focused - I clean up ok when it’s socially appropriate, I occasionally get dressed up and wear makeup when going out, but most days I just don’t care and am busy with things that matter more to me. I always thought I was doing the right thing by raising my kids this way. But now I worry that this just did more to set them apart from their peers, to make my daughter feel that she wasn’t attractive or couldn’t compete with other girls. They live in a world of Tik Tok influencers - even if they aren’t on social media it’s still the world all their peers reside in, and looking like that seems to be the expectation. If you don’t care about looking like that, I guess they figure you can’t be a girl. I wonder sometimes if I’d helped her fit in better, maybe this wouldn’t have happened. And it’s my observation that nearly all the girls I know of who’ve gotten into this were not appearance focused.
Not so. While I am like you, my daughter was very appearance focused and physically looked like everyone else. I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that they don't fit in regardless of whether they put on the make-up and wear the clothes. Something internal is going on that makes them feel disconnected, other than, different, etc. It's not that they aren't dressed like their peers! You didn't cause this.
What a dumpster fire. Gosh. This reads like 'how the internet broke women'.
So broken in the mind. Major errors.
Such a huge failure of stratospheric proportions that this has come to be.
My word. It's devastating!
These women need re-education retreats out in the wilderness with no internet and nothing male. A place where they have to rely on their physical selves to get thing done; like scouts, while receiving positive support for all the mess in their minds.
It breaks my heart so deeply. The fact that the modern world goes along with this madness is like the final nail in their messed up coffin of broken futures.
Also, this article proves to me, what a 'trend' it truly is. Just like Abigail Shrier said in her book Irreversible Damage.
Every young person who declares himself or herself transgender or non-binary should get a minimum of 200 hours of mandatory community service. It must be something physically exhausting in a company of other people.
(I know, I know, it's a simplistic way to look at this complicated problem)
This so speaks of the shifting of cultural norms and how it has impacted the mental health of so many. The shifting of boundaries has resulted in confusion and a type of anomie or loss of a guiding self system. The political climate has also enhanced identity versus shame and doubt. This is a mental health crisis and needs to be seen as just that. Political correctness is shameful state of malpractice on clinical medical and behavioral providers.
"Political correctness is shameful state of malpractice on clinical medical and behavioral providers." Speaking as a mental health professional, I completely agree. It is first of all an imposition of the clinicians crackpot ideology on patients instead of helping them in the ways they want, need and are paying for. Second, one of the central necessary conditions in all healthcare is that the patient be encouraged to speak freely and frankly in private professional conversations with their providers.
As one mental health professional to another I applaud your courage to even comment on my post. I know there are many other mental health professionals that read this information and are too cowed by the current climate to speak out about this subject. One would think the orange clown himself we’re threatening these sorry folks with his own retribution!
It took me awhile to get my bearings. I found out about this crap about a year and a half ago. At this point I am more than ready and willing to call out unethical and incompetent aspects of practices based on critical theory and gender ideology.
"I always just figured "female camaraderie" was a straight-up myth and that all girls were catty and drama-prone. My compassion towards women improved 1000% once I realized I wasn't one."
This one is particularly devastating on a personal level.
I also wonder what's up with worrying about fetishizing gay men. I had a student tell me this a few years ago. She was worried about straight girls doing this and I never really got it. I've never been into the kind of anime that showcases those relationships through a teenage girl lens. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to know.
It’s bc women, the sex that has been oppressed by men of any sexual orientation for 15,000+ years, are considered by those subscribing to Social Justice Ideology as ranking beneath gay men in terms of level of oppression. Despite the fact that studies show that gay men objectify and oppress women as much as straight men do. That being said, a lot of girls/young women DO fetishize gay male relationships. However, unlike the reverse of straight men fetishizing lesbians, my theory is that there are many women become psychologically/emotionally/sexually attached to gay male identity as an avoidance coping mechanism- avoidance from actually scary dangers of being a heterosexual woman. Women who struggle with sexual shame might have grown up connecting with the only stories they have heard of people who are attracted to men while being ashamed of one’s sexuality: gay men. These gals were raised in a culture of toxic “sex positivity” where their boundaries were always questioned, and where people told them that REAL women don’t have shame (when most women have TONS) or even have boundaries in the first place, and if you do, then there’s something wrong with you.
I think that is part of it, but not entirely. The use of male characters allows narrative distance so that the reader (or creator) can explore parts of themselves they may otherwise want to disown. And in the case of weirdo straight girls, sure, sexual desire may be part of it, but it isn't an accident you see so many TIFs talk about how they want to perform femininity as GUYS. The writing of Soft Gay Men isn't always an idealization of men being soft, it is sometimes because the women writing them are wrestling with their own desires to explore being soft while wanting to reject it as an expectation of womanhood.
And sometimes the use of gay men is to explore a sense of alienation (especially family alienation) from people who have felt alienated and who have horrible family experiences and either (again) they can't explore their own, real feelings in a direct manner so they come at it sideways or they don't feel like the reasons for their own alienation or family difficulties are "justified" but if the character is gay then your audience will be on his side instead of blaming him.
And last LOL okay so shout out to my many years in RP-and-fandom land but there tend to be two types of women involved.
Type one embraces the sexualization. Within RP land, she's writing her unnaturally beautiful, sensual, tragic and badass young woman and also throws her at every male character and it gets on everyone else's nerves. So, my observations is that usually if type one has self-esteem issues they are external. She is not living up to what society says she should be like as a woman! But if you remove the external pressures, she likes herself fine.
Type two, writes primarily male characters. If she wants to write romance she'll end up making her character gay because type one and type two don't get along because type two HATES sexualized female characters. Type two tends to have a lot of self-hatred that may have begun due to external factors but are now deeply ingrained.
And I was so delighted when my observations dovetailed with research on online avatar usage! Namely:
People with healthy self-esteems create avatars that closely resemble themselves, including the parts that are not considered ideal
People who feel they are failing to live up to external expectations create avatars that are sexually idealized versions of themselves.
People who feel they are failing to live up to their OWN expectations choose avatars that don't resemble themselves at all.
I'm always glad when my information hoarding is useful for someone else. I have a uh google doc full of links about identity formation and (gender, the internet, roleplaying games, Autism and ADHD) bc I went through a phase of wanting to understand WHY my cohort of Autistic nerds were at the highest risk for transing.
Wait here I made a public version with the most relevant links just in case any of the rest of them might be useful, too:
Developing teen brains wrestling with concepts and definitions that they don’t yet have the innate cognitive ability (let alone formal and informal education) to deeply understand.
The internet truly is both a blessing and a curse.
This is fascinating if you allow yourself to get sucked into it, but maybe we don’t really need to parse it any deeper than “This is the inevitable result of parents basically letting their kids be raised by the Internet”.
Pretty much all of the parents who report successfully inspiring their kids to desist started by spending more time with them and restricting time on their devices.
Five years ago, I allowed my then-14 year old to join social media, having had many conversations about not having conversations with people you don’t know in real life, never posting personal information like your school or location, never meeting up with people you only know from the internet, the fact that people aren’t always who they claim to be, being careful not to access inappropriate material, etc. I believed these were the dangers of the Internet. I didn’t know that online cults that would brainwash my child into believing she was a boy were a thing I needed to watch out for. And I didn’t want my child, who already didn’t always fit in socially, to be even more isolated from her peers.
Obviously, I was wrong. Obviously if I’d known then everything I know now I would never have allowed her online at all, and I probably would have either homeschooled her or put her in a small religious school (although who’s to say she wouldn’t have then been sucked into this in college?)
I lie awake at 3 am regretting my decisions, wondering how I could be such a bad parent as to raise a kid who hated herself so much and was so insecure in her identity that this made sense to her, wishing I’d understood and taken drastic action the minute I knew what was going on instead of feeling lost and confused, thinking back on every parenting moment and decision and trying to figure out what sequence of actions would have avoided all bad outcomes.
I made what I thought were the best decisions at the time. I tried to strike a balance between setting limits and allowing some freedom, teaching responsibility and having some fun, validating feelings and teaching resilience, spending time with my kids and supporting them financially. Obviously I got it all wrong. I know this.
But your statements aren’t really helpful. While I may be a crappy parent, I promise you this is not a case of not trying enough, or carelessly “letting the internet raise my child”.
This is not about crappy parenting. I have seen and spoken to parents of so many different stripes who are wrapped up in this and they all beat themselves up. Nobody knew they had to worry about their kids being aggressively recruited -- online but also in schools, also through the media and pop culture -- into a body-modification cult. I had peers sucked into this when we were in our mid-to-late 20s. It is tremendously compelling as a way to frame one's problems in life.
I actually agree with you that it’s important for people to be aware of the risks to their kids, and that the biggest dangers from the internet aren’t the ones we hear about, but the brainwashing we don’t hear about.
But acting as if there are simple, easy answers, that all you have to do is spend time with your kids and ban the internet, that this only happens to kids with neglectful parents, is counterproductive. Denying that it’s complicated, and that banning the internet completely may not be practical in a time when schools do nearly everything online, doesn’t help anyone avoid this situation.
Your projections would fill a drive-in movie screen. I get it, but I’m a lot more concerned about the kids. This is a rolling landslide of a growing disaster and I think we’re past the point of needing to worry about tiptoeing around the egos of parents. We are grown-ups, we are going to have to deal with it.
On a macro level, what we're experiencing is partly the result of this very dynamic - placing avoidance of hurt feelings above speaking the unpleasant truth to those we care about and honoring healthy boundaries.
You are missing the point. My point is not “boo hoo, you hurt my feelings”. The point is that there are dangers out there that can happen to any kid. Even those whose parents limit internet access, and spend plenty of time with them, and encourage them to not think of just their appearance, and are married to each other, and are religious, and vote conservative, and all of the other things that I’ve seen various people blame for individual kids getting caught up in this. Telling people that these things are the cause is a lie, and doesn’t help them protect their kids. It only protects your feelings by giving you false reassurance that this could never happen to you because you’re not like those crappy parents who brought it upon themselves.
So if I could go back in time knowing everything I know now, what would I do differently? This is a hard question but there are a few things:
1) Be aware of the type of kid who is likely to get caught in this. Those who are young for their age, who have trouble socially, who are very smart and imaginative, are insecure, and moat importantly, are very sensitive to criticism and very hard on themselves - if you have a kid like this take extra precautions!
2) Delay social media. Even if it makes their social issues worse. Especially keep them away from Tumblr, Reddit, and certain corners of Tik Tok. Also be very aware of what they watch on YouTube. The biggest danger of the internet isn’t interacting with strangers, it’s being brainwashed into a world view that is completely absurd
3) Strongly examine what they are being taught at school and if necessary, change schools or even homeschool if you don’t feel confident your kids can resist this.
4) Talk to your kids about the fact that there are crazy world views out there and people who will try to influence their thinking. And that if you view the same points of view over and over again, they start to seem sensible because it’s human nature to conform. Talk about some of the nonsensical views and why you don’t agree with them.
5) Stay away from any GSA group, scouts, anyone else pushing this nonsense. I’d carefully vet any theater or performing arts activities too. Your kids don’t need authority figures pushing gender confusion.
6) Try to find activities that don’t include gender nonsense that will give your kids a sense of identity and purpose in their lives, like sports. My other child is into dance and that gives her a healthy outlet. The child who is not doing well never really found an activity that stuck that she had a passion for. I wish I’d have forced her to stay with something and practice enough to get good at it even when she was reluctant.
7) If you find out that your child is getting caught in this, take immediate action! Cut off all internet and remove them from their social scene and find a new school. Move if you have to. (I know this is hard). Talk about some of the things they are hearing about and thinking and why you don’t agree with them. I will forever regret that I was confused and caught off balance and didn’t know how to react.
Awesome! Congrats on being constructive! These are all GREAT suggestions.
Now you just need to work on avoiding tearing down parallel viewpoints with your psychodrama ;-) Go for "Yes AND" rather than "No No No you've got it all wrong it's THIS way".
Yes, some parents did let their kids have free access to the internet. A lot of parents trusted their kids to do the online school while they were maintaining their own livelihoods during lockdown. The ideology is everywhere, I don’t know how anyone could avoid it unless you go off the grid. Or you could control every aspect of your kids’ lives, but there’s no guarantee that they won’t get themselves into trouble when they grow up. Turning off the internet can help, but it’s never going to be as simple as that.
Yes, it certainly isn’t easy to set boundaries for our kids sometimes! But the ever-mounting evidence of the harm to their mental health from excessive social media and Internet use makes it worth the effort.
I don’t think it’s a question of preventing them from being exposed to the ideology as much as it’s about putting in the quality time with them to show them that they are loved and just fine as who and what they are. There is no substitute for that. The experiences of the PITT parents confirm it.
The worst aspect of the trans fad is that when it implodes, men will have a field day with it. All the stats and data that women have painstakingly collected to prove trans ideology is toxic to women will be turned against us, against all women, to "prove" how unstable we are and how unreliable and susceptible we are to "mass hysteria".
The trans-identified men will be dismissed as sexual adventurers, bravely exploring their emotional and sexual complexity (Well, ladies, isn't that what you always demanded of men? To stop being so homophobic and emotionally constipated? You finally got what you want and STILL you complain). When men detransition, they will be celebrated for completing their journey of self-discovery.
But trans-identified women make up the majority of recent transitions, and since we have declared that the gender dysphoria of women is based on wanting to escape from misogyny, along with comorbid autism and a history of childhood sexual abuse, our transitions will be framed purely as a mental health crisis.
Every incel jackass on the planet will be slithering out of the primordial patriarchal ooze to proclaim what they always "knew" - all women are basically crazy, we all secretly want to be men (even though we hate men), and it's dangerous and irresponsible to allow women to have any amount of power or autonomy. Never mind the fact that all of the trans rapists and pedophiles were (and still are) MEN, when the detransition tsunami finally hits the shore, the focus and blame will be on the women. Keep your bookmarks to all those articles about male trans predators - we're going to need them.
I think we’re already seeing that now. But don’t lose hope: women are capable of speaking up about our experiences, even in the face of sexism. But I agree, the hardest hit are LGB people and women. That being said: there are PLENTY of men who view men who damage their penises in any way as batshit crazy and regard them with nothing but horror and pity. I think you’re underestimating that. But I agree, we tend to afford men more perceptions of competence and than deserve.
When I was in school, a friend got recruited into an actual cult by a teacher. He wasn't more stupid or naive than the other students. The teacher just got to him when his father died and he was temporarily vulnerable.
I distrust anyone who proselytizes and I deeply disdain anyone who does so from a position of authority. I don't care if someone thinks that they are proselytizing for world peace. Every child-catcher from a cult thought he was with the good people, too.
One thought overwhelms all others when reading this: Holy shit what an absolutely massive wave of detransitioners we’re about to see within the next five years.
Sadly, I fear a wave of suicides will follow shortly thereafter. Gender activists will blame it all on "transphobia" and use it to entrench themselves even more.
And will *attempt* to entrench themselves even more. But I hear you.
The cognitive dissonance in these statements is astounding. It also sounds much like the tone of adolescent conversations I remember: the endless analysis of bodies, worry about wearing “the right clothes “, wanting to perform the behavior that might attract the crush of the month. I fear for this young cohort of women. They are going to be devastated when reality hits home.
100% agree. The difference is that now, because of how overwhelmingly saturated every aspect of culture is with this one particular lens and narrative, gender is the only way to understand and talk about these insecurities and concepts. And since this has become really the only "idiom" circulating that they have to try to understand their distress, transition becomes the only path they think there is out of it, no matter how much of an awkward fit and stretch it is to apply these concepts to their own personal experiences.
And it is quite obvious from their posts that reality is already knocking on the door of their minds. It's knocking louder and louder but they hide and don't answer. Will they answer before the door is broken?
Well put.
SO depressing.
'Why do you think you're a different type of boy, instead of a different type of girl?'
Because the whole genderism just confuse young ppl, it‘s that simple. It is the confusing ideology that plants images of themselves in their mind. And the sm pressure.
It's gender stereotyping to the extreme, presented as being progressive.
And are these girls really that different? What teenager hasn’t felt uncomfortable in their body at some point? What percentage of adults remember their youth as teenage perfection, fitting in with the desired crowd? As if everyone else has it all figured out?
Not at all; in fact, many of them are highly feminine and 'gender conforming', but they see feminity in women as shameful, and like they can only express themselves as they are (and be celebrated for it) as 'men'.
Adults have all decided to conveniently forget that we all hated our bodies during puberty, and we all didn't enjoy that time, and that we always knew that highly feminine little boys would probably grow up to be gay.
This article (which was insightful and interesting to read) brought up so many thoughts in me, which, unfortunately, I'll have to rush through because I have to get to bed.
Setting aside the obvious confusion and contradictions, I see our attitude towards nature being turned on ourselves. Nature is there for us to manipulate, and now our bodies are nothing more than another part of nature to be manipulated to our whim. The whole idea that we have one body that we must preserve and treat carefully has gone out the window. The body is now our own private Frankenstein monster to tamper with as we please.
I am reminded of an article I read by a woman who had purple dye injected into her eyes to make her look something like a demon (at least, that's how she appeared to me). For that woman, her body was there simply to be manipulated. Coloring your eyes may seem similar to tattoos (just another kind of body art), but it isn't because it is such a basic organ. Unfortunately, she got a crackpot to inject the dye (who else would do it?), and she was in danger of going blind.
In the last three months I had cataract surgery on my eyes. Those were the first operations I have ever had, and I delayed them as long as possible. Altering my natural state terrifies me (as it should).
Trans people, I think, can't make a distinction between what is superficial (the skin) and what is an important part of their bodies and must be preserved (the organs, the ability reproduce, etc.).
And what about one's future self? I have read about trans people who developed dementia as they got older, and wondered why they didn't look like the selves they remembered from their youth. (People with dementia tend to remember their youths better than their later years.)
One thing which is certain is that trans people live in a Never Never land of identity confusion. In my case, I hammered away at my identity for my entire life, trying to refine it, trying to figure out who I was. These trans people like to do the opposite: They throw their identity up into the wind like so much confetti and don't worry about where it lands. They are self-experimenters.
There was one more thought I had which has flown out of my head. Tomorrow I'll add it to this comment if I remember it. Gotta go.
This point is amazing "And what about one's future self? I have read about trans people who develop dementia as they got older, and wondered why they didn't look like the selves they remembered from their youth." And couple it with research that is, I think at this point just pointing to, saying that trans people that develop dementia develop it earlier, yikes! https://www.beingpatient.com/transgender-dementia-nonbinary/#:~:text=Transgender%20and%20nonbinary%20%28TNB%29%20adults%20are%20more%20likely,presented%20at%20the%20Alzheimer%E2%80%99s%20Association%20International%20Conference%202021.
It seems to me not surprising that people who self identify as "trans" and "non-binary" people, who live in a state of permanent cognitive dissonance in denying the reality of sex, are prone to more frequent and earlier onset of Subjective Cognitive Impairment.
SCI is stage 2 of Alzheimer's syndrome, where the person knows something is off, even though it's not (yet) evident to others. SCI follows an asymptomatic Stage 1 lasting around 10 years: with physical signs of brain degeneration but no experienced mental or behavioral change.
(Stage 3, "Mild" Cognitive Impairment, is a complete misnomer for a disease process already under way for at least 20 years. Stage 4 is full blown Alzheimer's.)
Given that the cognitive dissonance of people who self identify as "trans" or "non-binary" is itself a form of cognitive impairment that makes endless difficult demands on brain function, plus social demands on others not necessarily willing to comply, this would appear to set the scene for anxiety and depression, and further brain deterioration.
Reversion to an earlier and less demanding sense of identity as Alzheimer's progresses, probably comes as a relief.
Alzheimer's syndrome is now recognised by a range of medical specialists as a lifestyle disease which is highly treatable: which can be stopped and even reversed (if caught soon enough) by a range of lifestyle interventions not involving drugs.
I was just talking to a friend about how casually it seems some people speak and act about medical interventions. They seem oblivious to the risks inherent in any medical intervention let alone hormones & surgeries.
I got the answer from my pretty feminine teenage, trans-identified daughter the other night (a follow-up discussion - well, argument, wherein she cemented ideas that had previously been more murky). She noted that she MUST TRANSITION ASAP (she'll be 18 in a few months). I had asked why she doesn't at least try, perhaps in college, to live as a female and see if she can be comfortable, as she at least agreed with me that it would be better if she didn't have to medically alter her body. She said she cannot live as a female for any time period because, if she tries to live as a woman for any time period, her friends who currently believe she is male will "treat her differently," and her new friends will then also know her as female and "treat her differently," and she doesn't want to be "treated like a girl." She said, even if she ultimately tells them she is trans, and then transitions, they will still, at least subconsciously, treat her differently than if they believe she is biologically male. (I pressed her for what this means, particularly since she has insisted that she, and all good "allies" treat someone like they ask to be treated and actually think of them as the sex they say they are, even if they were not born that way. She had to admit that, at least subconsciously, even she treats her openly trans friends differently than biological females or males.)
When asked what it means to be treated as male or female, she could not be specific, but was clear that she doesn't want whatever being treated as female means.
She also agreed, when I noted that the mixed bag of how people are treated differently based on their sex, might include some things she would like better if people treated her as a female. That is, she knows there are some things about being "treated like a girl" that she likes. However, to her, on balance, being treated like a gay, flamboyant male is preferable to be treated like a female.
She also, like I see from the first girl you quoted, gained whiplash, as she moved back and forth through arguments. She tried to say how unimportant one's genitals are, and how unimportant the body parts one is born with are (as opposed to body parts one creates through surgical or chemical means). However, when I asked if she feels it's important that people believe she was born with male genitals, she agreed.
Further, once she has a mastectomy (a word she finds offensive for some reason), she said she can wear little tank tops or whatever she wants and still pass as male. She has previously mentioned, like the person you quote, that she might wear some make-up and maybe even a dress, once she can pass as male (after mastectomy and testosterone). So, like that person, she wants to express her feminine side, but not as a female!!!
Bottom line, she wants the world to think of her as male - not masculine, but male. She doesn't know what that means, but knows she doesn't want to be thought of as female. That seems to be the driving force behind transition for her (and, apparently, many young women).
When your daughter speaks to you about how she is treated as a male, have her repeat everything she said, but replace "male" with "human being". That's what she really wants- to be respected as a human being, not a second class citizen. When you say "she wants to take advantage of any of the benefits this movement can afford her", those benefits are the legislatively codified respect and support she is receiving from the powerful LGBTQ+ political lobby, backed by corporations using allyship to market their products, and social media influencers who virtue-signal their devotion to boost their image. ALL of that support will disappear soon, as people become increasingly disgusted by the overreach of cancel culture, and the incessant demands to comply with new language changes and hate speech laws. Trans people are assholes. Most people think it, but few are brave enough to say it out loud.
Your daughter needs to know her crutch won't hold up on the shifting sands of public sentiment. At its core, trans ideology is a male supremacy movement, and she will always be an outsider. Feminism, on the other hand, has survived despite hundreds of years of resistance. If she can learn to embrace her womanhood and fight for herself as a woman, she will find a community that is steadfast in its cause, and accepting of her and her individual choices.
Very excellent and eloquent post!
"ALL of that support will disappear soon, as people become increasingly disgusted by the overreach of cancel culture, and the incessant demands to comply with new language changes and hate speech laws."
I deeply hope that your vision comes to pass! I fear that the only people who will perceive cancel culture as overreach are people in the older generations who did not previously recognize what has been happening. Gen Z represents the future and they are another matter.
The same things that drove many of us to feminism are driving younger women to think they're trans. It's all back to front and upside down.
That's true. And what is sad and infuriating about that choice is that young women choose transition over feminism because 3rd wave feminists are such dick-pandering handmaidens that there is really no empowerment or support to be had in that environment. Libfems treat lesbians like shit, while they continue to perform the same sad gendered servitude to men that our mothers and grandmothers did, under the guise that "doing it all" is a legitimate goal, and somehow noble. Choice feminism is bullshit. Subjecting oneself to oppressive beauty, weight, and lifestyle standards is not liberation. Shopping, cooking, cleaning, and social scheduling for the whole household when both parents work is not the pinnacle of success- it's a complete capitulation that betrays all women, and everything we've worked for. THIS is what young girls are running from- a life of being preyed upon and used by men. Radical feminism is the only thing that can save them.
We need to aggressively SUPPORT the girls who instinctively reject the superficial narcissism of influencer culture, while making it clear to them that trans ideology is just the flip side of the same destructive coin. They need to understand how to exist in a complicated world without following a trend or reinventing themselves. They're scared. That's understandable. We can think back to our own adolescence, to the tactics that WE used to survive, and show these girls there are a better ways to develop your character and secure your own space in the world that don't involve cutting off your breasts and calling yourself Kai.
AGREED
This sums it up. Femininity--womanhood--is still disrespected. This young woman just wants what we all want--to be seen as a human being.
Thanks for sharing this. You sound like you’re having really good conversations that challenge her in ways no one else will. She also seems engaged by it which suggests she respects your thoughts and opinions. I give you parents so much credit for this work.
Thank you for sharing all of this. First off, I have no answers and can't pretend to. I do have questions which if they are off the mark or ridiculous I apologize in advance! Has your daughter considered how this is a temporary movement that she is participating? If one looks at what the pressing zeitgeist periods are over the span of a say 90 year lifespan, nothing lasts a full 90 years, and I think it includes this too. Her statement may be rendered meaningless in the future. If she was alive in the 1910's the woman's right to vote would have been the pressing issue, and didn't include changing ones body in a way that would be carried into the next movement of the times! I just feel like one aspect of all of this "true trans" medicalization is sacrificing young people in the name of society can't possibly get passed gender stereotypes sufficiently enough. It could be argued her transitioning would slow the process of us being able to be more accurately seen for who we are, not just a stereotype. How powerful it would be if she said, you know what, all of the ways you've seen me and understood me, those are qualities that are actually under the umbrella of cis woman and I want to broaden what that can be. It's like she wants to transition to a cis boy that is allowed to express femininity . . . why not support a cis boy in doing that. THAT could be her contribution. Anyways, these are just thoughts, and may not be useful, but I again appreciate you sharing and of course wish our culture didn't treat adolescents as a time for all kids to actively search the soul to consider whether or not to have a gender/sex change :(
You've said nothing ridiculous, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comments. My daughter doesn't much want to be part of this (or any) movement. Rather, she wants to take advantage of any of the benefits this movement can afford her. I don't think she would sacrifice her body to prove that cis-males can be effeminate. In fact, she was inspired to express herself this way by her respect for various effeminate males, who she thinks are the height of cool, and she just wants to emulate them (much like I wanted to emulate Fonzie as a kid - but I didn't decide to pretend I was male and mutilate my body - perhaps I wasn't a big enough fan - read sarcasm).
I have clearly explained to her that this is a "trend" and society is providing mis-information to people, which is misleading them into thinking this is something to do if you feel uncomfortable in your skin as a teen (or, insanely, as a small child). She then says I'm saying she's been "brainwashed," and is offended by the idea of herself as being stupid enough to be brainwashed. I've never used that word with her but, yeah, it is brainwashing. However, I made clear to her that many thousands of highly educated adults have been misled in this same way (some into transitioning and the rest into just believing the ideology). I noted that our president seems to believe some of this stuff (to the extent he isn't just courting votes, which I don't think he would outright lie for, so he must believe this stuff at least a little bit), and that she is not stupid for being drawn in by all this. She's just a kid!
In the end, the fantasy of both eschewing all the challenges of womanhood, even giving up her sexuality (which she says she's fine with, it's not important to have sexual pleasure - this from a girl whose never been kissed), and explaining her emotional sensitivity, is too strong, particularly as society props it up and calls people like me bigoted fools. I hope this changes soon.
Thanks for following up. That gay boy thing, it's painful to learn these things but so important. Apparently way back when Broke Back Mountain came out it did well in the theaters because of teengage girls liking the fantasy of men with men and not having to ba a part of that. Which your daughter is somehow combining into I can be that gay boy AND I can not be a part of it because may have poor sexual functioning. There are tons of adults that are not at all informed on this topic, and the uninformed are letting kids down is my thinking. The 4 things that made me go what (probably more)?? Were the "assigned at birth" and that one can change their body out of being "truly" trans" and not requiring actual deep dysphoria the general public is led to believe is what is going on. The third was how it was a global movement that moced swiftly effecting laws, LOL that a movement would move so swiftly to BENEFIT women and children, truly laughable. I wish a movement and laws could move swiftly, behind the scenes even! to benefit women and children. And lastly a mom that explained that she pushed away her fears of medicalizing her child ("Rose" in a Wider Lens interview) because it was transphobic to fear it. THAT is scary, to not feel free to look at the medical applications done to your child because that makes you a bad person? What? I respect you so much for doing all you can, and working hard to hold it together I'm sure. This is why I think the age shouldn't be 18. One should not spend high school anticipating changing their sex. Even if a few would benefit too many are getting unneeded "care." Take care
This is very enlightening. My daughter has also said that she doesn’t want people to “see her as a girl”. I think this is common, and something all of us can understand to some degree - when I was young I also had a bad case of “not like other girls” which I now understand as an attempt to distance myself from negative stereotypes about girls and women. Of course, that requires believing those misogynistic stereotypes to begin with. (“Sure, those other girls are airheaded, appearance-obsessed, boy-crazy, lazy, frivolous, gold-digging pieces of fluff who can never accomplish anything but look at me, *I* am nothing like that!” 😣)
This really says something about the ways that our society treats young women - in a way that’s so intolerable that they feel they have to escape it by not being women. But of course those of us who are older understand that those stereotypes have nothing to do with what it truly means to be a woman, and that those stereotypes are limiting both for the people who embrace them AND the people who go out of their way to reject them.
Yes. My daughter has criticized exactly those air-headed, petty girls, as well as the media for portraying so many girls in that way. To me, that should inspire her to want to be a good role-model of an intellectual girl, a quirky girl with different interests (theatre, old movies, old music, etc.), and deep thinking and true compassion (not virtue-signaling). Instead, our daughters want to run away from girlhood/womanhood altogether, sacrificing their own bodies. Try as we might, we cannot seem to get them to realize that this is not the way to fight against unfair stereotypes and standards.
“When asked what it means to be treated as male or female, she could not be specific, but was clear that she doesn't want whatever being treated as female means” I mean, I completely agree with her! Being female in today’s society sucks. It used to be that heterosexual males were better than heterosexual females, nowadays, heterosexual males, homosexual males, trans males, trans females, black people, foreign people, immigrants, etc are all better than straight or gay girls. Women last. I completely understand why girls would want to opt out of oppression. Unfortunately, we can’t. We just have to fight it. But in the era of social media, doing socially unpopular things like that is extra hard.
That must be so tough. My deepest sympathies.
What about hips though? Are there "gender affirming" procedures that can alter hips and pelvic tilt? Does your daughter realize that that will almost certainly always be a tell, even after a double mastectomy?
It is not ambiguous that my friends who have had double mastectomies because of cancer are female.
She is aware of that. She doesn't have particularly wide hips, but she knows it will always be, shall we say, imperfect.
Your entire comment is so interesting and I appreciate you sharing such a personal family interaction.
I’m particularly intrigued by “she doesn't want to be "treated like a girl."
Has she described what this means?
She has not. When pressed for details, she usually retreats to the argument "you're not respecting my wishes; my decisions for my life; I know what I want!" Then there's no more probing to be done.
None of them, in my experience, can explain what this means and they get incredibly reactive when pushed to. In the online communities, it comes up all the time: what does it mean to not feel female / to feel like a boy/man? And the answers are always: whatever it means to you, which may be different from whatever it means to anybody else, and you just know it.
If it is subjective to each individual, theb how come it relies on social affirmation? Why isn't internal affirmation sufficient?
If I had to guess, remembering myself as a teenager (and frankly, based on my experiences as an adult woman), what she means is: I want to be treated with respect. She wants to be respected. Not just by other women (women are often biased to respect males more, too), but especially by men. Romantically, too - I think teen girls are looking at their male peers and finding is impossible to imagine a relationship with them where the boy respects them.
Teenagers used to say that to their parents, but it was understood that the kid was indeed bound to do what the parents decided. The way that young people fail to recognize parental authority as valid is the worst trend. The Gen Z people I talk to have no respect for anyone who is "old." They think that they are right and moral superior to previous generations.
Yes. As I've mentioned elsewhere, part of the problem is that anything that is supported by a good amount of young people is considered morally superior. Since more young than older people fought for civil rights (plenty of older people did, but I'm speaking of percentages, and ignoring the fact that young people have the luxury of being able to do things like protesting while older people usually have more responsibilities like caring for children), and the same is true for gay rights, as well as protesting the Vietnam War, we now assume that, if the younger generation puts forth some notion, it must be right, morally superior and "progressive." Young people are marching to protect the climate and that's good! (Of course, most older people are on-board with that too, but we'll ignore that fact.) Thus, all the older women and men who are on-board with this gender garbage, even if they don't really understand it, think they are morally superior because they're in line with the young people. It's a foolish attempt at a short-cut to being right and staying relevant!
I was a civil rights activist from about 1963- 1995, as were many of my friends. Gen Z people are extremely disrespectful towards those of us who fought for their rights during times when minorities and women were experiencing real discrimination. Ageism has been a part of American culture for generations, but when I became active in the Second Wave womens movement I also read up on the First. Whatever happened to Gen Z during their socialization, we need to learn how to not repeat it.
It's also notable that, when you were fighting, it was actually a fight, with the mainstream being dead-set against what you were fighting for. It took courage. Nowadays, people "protest" but, with few exceptions, they're really just marching along, saying the things our government, large corporations, mainstream media, schools, colleges and universities, and many, if not most, of their friends and neighbors already agree with. They are both disrespectful of their elders and unappreciative of true struggle.
Hippiesq, your post has confirmed in my mind, more than anything else I have read, that transgenderism isn't just a fad among kids, but has become a cult. There is no sense at all in any of the things your daughter is saying, and she seems more concerned about her relationships with other cult members than she is concerned about herself. (I never knew that social pressure could be so toxic, given that I was never susceptible to it.)
Now, please don't see me as a kook for saying this, but I believe in reincarnation. (Actually, almost half the world believes in it, according to what I've read.) Some lives are sacrificed on mistakes, and those lives become a learning tool for the soul going forward. I'm saying this simply as a way to say that ultimately your daughter will be all right, even if she screws this life up. However, I encourage you to keep talking sense to her.
I don't think you're a kook. I think all things are possible in the universe, although I think some things are not possible within this particular experience that is life on Earth (such as being born in the "wrong body"). As I recognize that the broader universe contains everything all at once, it is likely that we experience many different "lives," whether on Earth in this form or in other ways we cannot even imagine.
I also agree that, in a very broad sense, she will be all right no matter what, given that any life can be worth living, and, if not exactly a "sacrifice," certainly a learning experience.
However, I will keep talking sense to her, and hope she will end up living a better life, and use the experience of having been conned by society into believing she is in the wrong body (preposterous) to make the rest of her life better and enrich her being and perhaps teach others. That is my philosophical/spiritual thought. My immediate emotional reaction to all this is anger at society, frustration with her, and sadness at how she can trust society over her own family and how things can go this wrong!
It's so refreshing to encounter someone who has a broader perspective. People see me as a kook for believing in reincarnation, while they ascribe to the prejudicial views of the ancient societies which gave rise to all the older religions.
The source that I believe in the most, the Seth Material, said that souls about to be reincarnated can choose the wrong gender because they are afraid of being the opposite gender (for whatever personal reason). But I don't think that's what is happening to your daughter. I believe she has joined a cult, and all cults try to separate their members from their families. She wouldn't have done that if she didn't have a rebellious element in her. Since I know nothing about you or her, I can't advise you (but I'll try). I would just suggest that you look back to your relationship and try to figure out if there were possible causes for her rebelliousness. Of course, she has her own innate personality, the personality she brought in with her, and her choices may have nothing to do with you or your relationship. Frankly, I'm commenting from the dark here, because I have never had children. I can only say that I hope that everything turns out all right for both of you.
I didn't mean to say that any life is a sacrifice, simply that some lives are devoted to learning one central lesson to the exclusion of others. I read of another "trans" young woman who allowed the cult to take her away from her mother, and then committed suicide. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to you or her. Let's hope that she comes to her senses, develops a normal (or at least productive) point of view, and that you become the best of friends as she grows into adulthood.
In that last sentence, you seem to be channeling my hopes and dreams for the future! :)
I'm a night person. I've just been up all night. Now I need to sleep.
I've already read one article on your Substack, and I'll read others. Take care.
I always wonder what these women do for a living. In my 20s I was in college and then law school and then building a career. How I looked was just a backdrop to what I wanted to achieve. In those days professional women looked like sleeker versions of the men in our world; skirt suits and low heels, light makeup. I see a bit more appearance diversity among the younger women coming up now, but not a lot.
There are way more women in corporate law, women judges, than when I was coming up. Feminism was about equality of opportunity, having our own professional networks, forging our paths into the formerly all-male world of business and law. Looks were just a footnote to who we wanted to become.
What happened?
In short: the internet.
Yeah, I see quite a few of them in retail. I suspect many more are HR workers running stupid workshops, enforcing ridiculous rules, and otherwise harassing hard working people .
I guess to paraphrase, Those who can'd do, transition.
What do they do for a living? The vast majority, nothing yet. They’re high school and college students. Not all, but many of them will realize once they get into the real world that this is nonsense.
So I know many, many TIFs bc I have all the risk factors and most of the ones I know personally are either unemployed or work in retail (even the ones who graduated with good degrees! Including some law school graduates!) Although my husband knew a few at one of his previous places of employment (in software) and mentioned that a large number of people he knew in high school and college are now trans.
But that is only related to being trans inasmuch as the same mental disorders associated with high rates of transition are also associated with low rates of employment. Or maybe the inability to find steady employment (or employment in a field you can proudly make part of your identity) contributes to the appeal of trans things.
I get you. It always seems like they're far too busy with 'existential' problems to have any time to study or work. Same with activists.
Well, some trans women (men) are going into porn -- "women" with large breasts and male genitalia are apparently a thrill for some viewers. Some trans men (women) are also going into porn, but not so much.
What I have always wondered about is those men who get tattoos on the backs on their hands and on their necks. Who would hire them for anything except to move boxes around in a warehouse?
Lots of environmental services staff and techs (lab, pharm, radiology), heck even nurses and medical and nursing assistants, even doctors and nurse practitioners, have visible ink these days. I think enforcing a "no visible tattoos" rule like 20 years ago would lead to an even more serious staffing crisis than we currently face.
Perhaps. But a person who gets tattoos on portions of his body that can never be covered up is making a statement, and people have a right to interpret that statement and decide whether they want such a person working for them. One thing's for sure, I will run like hell if I ever encounter a person who has tattooed tears under his eyes.
LOL! Me, it's tattooed eyeballs.
I would not want to be treated by either of those people, and I love visible tattoos. That would be too much muchness, though.
I've wondered that too b/c surely there is a base level of decorum that is observed--other than in the warehouse.
For those without kids who feel helpless about this trend in girls, or even for those who do have girls of their own, here’s something simple you can start to do right away that will help: resist the urge to encourage them to focus on their appearance, clothes and accessories.
What do I mean? I mean, what’s the first thing out of your mouth when you run into your friend with the cute little daughter? It’s a comment about their appearance, clothes or accessories, isn’t it. And you don’t do that nearly as much or at all when you run into a friend with a little boy, do you.
The male gaze is created in our daughters’ minds starting very young.
I'd like to share a few thoughts on this. I tried so hard to follow the advice with my daughter who got pulled into this but has also desisted. It's not as easy or as effective as we'd like to hope it would be. First, I could not control the comments of other people and there were so many comments. Yes, I know that we need to create a culture where no one feels like these are comments they should be constantly making the little girls, but realistically it's not going to happen and i can't control it. I even remember telling my husband, "what am I supposed to do when somebody complements her luxe? Immediately tell her not to pay attention to that? Somehow downplay it? That's going to cause a holes bunch of other problems and self-esteem issues." I also found that if you have a daughter who is naturally drawn to stereo typically feminine things and who greatly enjoys makeup and dresses, pink and sparkly things, what she can end up absorbing from the anti-princess, anti-stereotypically "girly" messaging that is out there is that there's something wrong with her for liking those things. That there's something shameful in liking femininity and stereo typically "girly" things. I don't want to go into all the details because those are personal and this is not the place, but I just wanted to offer that other perspective. I just wish it wasn't all so complicated.
So. Many. Comments. Oh I hear you. We can only appeal to our community and try to teach our daughters what’s really important about them that people will be drawn to.
I think there are dangers in both directions, here. I always believed in this philosophy. I rarely commented much on my daughters’ appearances because I didn’t want them to think it was the most important thing about them. I personally am also not really that appearance-focused - I clean up ok when it’s socially appropriate, I occasionally get dressed up and wear makeup when going out, but most days I just don’t care and am busy with things that matter more to me. I always thought I was doing the right thing by raising my kids this way. But now I worry that this just did more to set them apart from their peers, to make my daughter feel that she wasn’t attractive or couldn’t compete with other girls. They live in a world of Tik Tok influencers - even if they aren’t on social media it’s still the world all their peers reside in, and looking like that seems to be the expectation. If you don’t care about looking like that, I guess they figure you can’t be a girl. I wonder sometimes if I’d helped her fit in better, maybe this wouldn’t have happened. And it’s my observation that nearly all the girls I know of who’ve gotten into this were not appearance focused.
Not so. While I am like you, my daughter was very appearance focused and physically looked like everyone else. I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that they don't fit in regardless of whether they put on the make-up and wear the clothes. Something internal is going on that makes them feel disconnected, other than, different, etc. It's not that they aren't dressed like their peers! You didn't cause this.
I agree, but I don’t think the male gaze is the only or even the primary focus. I think it’s more of a global gaze that subconsciously animates us.
What a dumpster fire. Gosh. This reads like 'how the internet broke women'.
So broken in the mind. Major errors.
Such a huge failure of stratospheric proportions that this has come to be.
My word. It's devastating!
These women need re-education retreats out in the wilderness with no internet and nothing male. A place where they have to rely on their physical selves to get thing done; like scouts, while receiving positive support for all the mess in their minds.
It breaks my heart so deeply. The fact that the modern world goes along with this madness is like the final nail in their messed up coffin of broken futures.
Also, this article proves to me, what a 'trend' it truly is. Just like Abigail Shrier said in her book Irreversible Damage.
The Unspeakeasy with Meghan Daum, but for Teens!
Every young person who declares himself or herself transgender or non-binary should get a minimum of 200 hours of mandatory community service. It must be something physically exhausting in a company of other people.
(I know, I know, it's a simplistic way to look at this complicated problem)
Habitat for Humanity, maybe.
This so speaks of the shifting of cultural norms and how it has impacted the mental health of so many. The shifting of boundaries has resulted in confusion and a type of anomie or loss of a guiding self system. The political climate has also enhanced identity versus shame and doubt. This is a mental health crisis and needs to be seen as just that. Political correctness is shameful state of malpractice on clinical medical and behavioral providers.
"Political correctness is shameful state of malpractice on clinical medical and behavioral providers." Speaking as a mental health professional, I completely agree. It is first of all an imposition of the clinicians crackpot ideology on patients instead of helping them in the ways they want, need and are paying for. Second, one of the central necessary conditions in all healthcare is that the patient be encouraged to speak freely and frankly in private professional conversations with their providers.
As one mental health professional to another I applaud your courage to even comment on my post. I know there are many other mental health professionals that read this information and are too cowed by the current climate to speak out about this subject. One would think the orange clown himself we’re threatening these sorry folks with his own retribution!
It took me awhile to get my bearings. I found out about this crap about a year and a half ago. At this point I am more than ready and willing to call out unethical and incompetent aspects of practices based on critical theory and gender ideology.
"I always just figured "female camaraderie" was a straight-up myth and that all girls were catty and drama-prone. My compassion towards women improved 1000% once I realized I wasn't one."
This one is particularly devastating on a personal level.
I also wonder what's up with worrying about fetishizing gay men. I had a student tell me this a few years ago. She was worried about straight girls doing this and I never really got it. I've never been into the kind of anime that showcases those relationships through a teenage girl lens. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to know.
I wrote about this more here: https://genspect.org/seeking-refuge-in-idiosyncratic-sexual-identities-and-yaoi/
but not an expert, for sure
Thanks!
It’s bc women, the sex that has been oppressed by men of any sexual orientation for 15,000+ years, are considered by those subscribing to Social Justice Ideology as ranking beneath gay men in terms of level of oppression. Despite the fact that studies show that gay men objectify and oppress women as much as straight men do. That being said, a lot of girls/young women DO fetishize gay male relationships. However, unlike the reverse of straight men fetishizing lesbians, my theory is that there are many women become psychologically/emotionally/sexually attached to gay male identity as an avoidance coping mechanism- avoidance from actually scary dangers of being a heterosexual woman. Women who struggle with sexual shame might have grown up connecting with the only stories they have heard of people who are attracted to men while being ashamed of one’s sexuality: gay men. These gals were raised in a culture of toxic “sex positivity” where their boundaries were always questioned, and where people told them that REAL women don’t have shame (when most women have TONS) or even have boundaries in the first place, and if you do, then there’s something wrong with you.
I think that is part of it, but not entirely. The use of male characters allows narrative distance so that the reader (or creator) can explore parts of themselves they may otherwise want to disown. And in the case of weirdo straight girls, sure, sexual desire may be part of it, but it isn't an accident you see so many TIFs talk about how they want to perform femininity as GUYS. The writing of Soft Gay Men isn't always an idealization of men being soft, it is sometimes because the women writing them are wrestling with their own desires to explore being soft while wanting to reject it as an expectation of womanhood.
And sometimes the use of gay men is to explore a sense of alienation (especially family alienation) from people who have felt alienated and who have horrible family experiences and either (again) they can't explore their own, real feelings in a direct manner so they come at it sideways or they don't feel like the reasons for their own alienation or family difficulties are "justified" but if the character is gay then your audience will be on his side instead of blaming him.
And last LOL okay so shout out to my many years in RP-and-fandom land but there tend to be two types of women involved.
Type one embraces the sexualization. Within RP land, she's writing her unnaturally beautiful, sensual, tragic and badass young woman and also throws her at every male character and it gets on everyone else's nerves. So, my observations is that usually if type one has self-esteem issues they are external. She is not living up to what society says she should be like as a woman! But if you remove the external pressures, she likes herself fine.
Type two, writes primarily male characters. If she wants to write romance she'll end up making her character gay because type one and type two don't get along because type two HATES sexualized female characters. Type two tends to have a lot of self-hatred that may have begun due to external factors but are now deeply ingrained.
And I was so delighted when my observations dovetailed with research on online avatar usage! Namely:
People with healthy self-esteems create avatars that closely resemble themselves, including the parts that are not considered ideal
People who feel they are failing to live up to external expectations create avatars that are sexually idealized versions of themselves.
People who feel they are failing to live up to their OWN expectations choose avatars that don't resemble themselves at all.
Wow, can you link me to that avatar/self-esteem research??
yeah, and sorry, they used the term "self-discrepancy" but here you go:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7844083/
This is a huge help, honestly, for part of my thesis.
I'm always glad when my information hoarding is useful for someone else. I have a uh google doc full of links about identity formation and (gender, the internet, roleplaying games, Autism and ADHD) bc I went through a phase of wanting to understand WHY my cohort of Autistic nerds were at the highest risk for transing.
Wait here I made a public version with the most relevant links just in case any of the rest of them might be useful, too:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kp_93-m9XDCwf5Ng8Dsqs5tf94FI1J64zCJS4UNzfzg/edit?usp=sharing
(I'm just glad I'm not the only person who thought the research on avatar creation was relevant to the whole trans thing)
thank you!
Yes, it’s extremely complex. You laid it out so eloquently- great post!
The avatar research is fascinating.
This is all very helpful, thanks!
Developing teen brains wrestling with concepts and definitions that they don’t yet have the innate cognitive ability (let alone formal and informal education) to deeply understand.
The internet truly is both a blessing and a curse.
This is fascinating if you allow yourself to get sucked into it, but maybe we don’t really need to parse it any deeper than “This is the inevitable result of parents basically letting their kids be raised by the Internet”.
Pretty much all of the parents who report successfully inspiring their kids to desist started by spending more time with them and restricting time on their devices.
Five years ago, I allowed my then-14 year old to join social media, having had many conversations about not having conversations with people you don’t know in real life, never posting personal information like your school or location, never meeting up with people you only know from the internet, the fact that people aren’t always who they claim to be, being careful not to access inappropriate material, etc. I believed these were the dangers of the Internet. I didn’t know that online cults that would brainwash my child into believing she was a boy were a thing I needed to watch out for. And I didn’t want my child, who already didn’t always fit in socially, to be even more isolated from her peers.
Obviously, I was wrong. Obviously if I’d known then everything I know now I would never have allowed her online at all, and I probably would have either homeschooled her or put her in a small religious school (although who’s to say she wouldn’t have then been sucked into this in college?)
I lie awake at 3 am regretting my decisions, wondering how I could be such a bad parent as to raise a kid who hated herself so much and was so insecure in her identity that this made sense to her, wishing I’d understood and taken drastic action the minute I knew what was going on instead of feeling lost and confused, thinking back on every parenting moment and decision and trying to figure out what sequence of actions would have avoided all bad outcomes.
I made what I thought were the best decisions at the time. I tried to strike a balance between setting limits and allowing some freedom, teaching responsibility and having some fun, validating feelings and teaching resilience, spending time with my kids and supporting them financially. Obviously I got it all wrong. I know this.
But your statements aren’t really helpful. While I may be a crappy parent, I promise you this is not a case of not trying enough, or carelessly “letting the internet raise my child”.
This is not about crappy parenting. I have seen and spoken to parents of so many different stripes who are wrapped up in this and they all beat themselves up. Nobody knew they had to worry about their kids being aggressively recruited -- online but also in schools, also through the media and pop culture -- into a body-modification cult. I had peers sucked into this when we were in our mid-to-late 20s. It is tremendously compelling as a way to frame one's problems in life.
“I already know what I did wrong, I don’t want to hear it again“.
Too bad. Suck it up. You’re not the most important person here, the kids are.
There are plenty of people who don’t get it as clearly as you do, and we all need to be sounding the alarm.
So you can pitch in and help or not, and I understand if you can’t. But if you can’t, stay out of the way please. Thanks.
I actually agree with you that it’s important for people to be aware of the risks to their kids, and that the biggest dangers from the internet aren’t the ones we hear about, but the brainwashing we don’t hear about.
But acting as if there are simple, easy answers, that all you have to do is spend time with your kids and ban the internet, that this only happens to kids with neglectful parents, is counterproductive. Denying that it’s complicated, and that banning the internet completely may not be practical in a time when schools do nearly everything online, doesn’t help anyone avoid this situation.
Your projections would fill a drive-in movie screen. I get it, but I’m a lot more concerned about the kids. This is a rolling landslide of a growing disaster and I think we’re past the point of needing to worry about tiptoeing around the egos of parents. We are grown-ups, we are going to have to deal with it.
On a macro level, what we're experiencing is partly the result of this very dynamic - placing avoidance of hurt feelings above speaking the unpleasant truth to those we care about and honoring healthy boundaries.
You are missing the point. My point is not “boo hoo, you hurt my feelings”. The point is that there are dangers out there that can happen to any kid. Even those whose parents limit internet access, and spend plenty of time with them, and encourage them to not think of just their appearance, and are married to each other, and are religious, and vote conservative, and all of the other things that I’ve seen various people blame for individual kids getting caught up in this. Telling people that these things are the cause is a lie, and doesn’t help them protect their kids. It only protects your feelings by giving you false reassurance that this could never happen to you because you’re not like those crappy parents who brought it upon themselves.
So if I could go back in time knowing everything I know now, what would I do differently? This is a hard question but there are a few things:
1) Be aware of the type of kid who is likely to get caught in this. Those who are young for their age, who have trouble socially, who are very smart and imaginative, are insecure, and moat importantly, are very sensitive to criticism and very hard on themselves - if you have a kid like this take extra precautions!
2) Delay social media. Even if it makes their social issues worse. Especially keep them away from Tumblr, Reddit, and certain corners of Tik Tok. Also be very aware of what they watch on YouTube. The biggest danger of the internet isn’t interacting with strangers, it’s being brainwashed into a world view that is completely absurd
3) Strongly examine what they are being taught at school and if necessary, change schools or even homeschool if you don’t feel confident your kids can resist this.
4) Talk to your kids about the fact that there are crazy world views out there and people who will try to influence their thinking. And that if you view the same points of view over and over again, they start to seem sensible because it’s human nature to conform. Talk about some of the nonsensical views and why you don’t agree with them.
5) Stay away from any GSA group, scouts, anyone else pushing this nonsense. I’d carefully vet any theater or performing arts activities too. Your kids don’t need authority figures pushing gender confusion.
6) Try to find activities that don’t include gender nonsense that will give your kids a sense of identity and purpose in their lives, like sports. My other child is into dance and that gives her a healthy outlet. The child who is not doing well never really found an activity that stuck that she had a passion for. I wish I’d have forced her to stay with something and practice enough to get good at it even when she was reluctant.
7) If you find out that your child is getting caught in this, take immediate action! Cut off all internet and remove them from their social scene and find a new school. Move if you have to. (I know this is hard). Talk about some of the things they are hearing about and thinking and why you don’t agree with them. I will forever regret that I was confused and caught off balance and didn’t know how to react.
Awesome! Congrats on being constructive! These are all GREAT suggestions.
Now you just need to work on avoiding tearing down parallel viewpoints with your psychodrama ;-) Go for "Yes AND" rather than "No No No you've got it all wrong it's THIS way".
Yes, some parents did let their kids have free access to the internet. A lot of parents trusted their kids to do the online school while they were maintaining their own livelihoods during lockdown. The ideology is everywhere, I don’t know how anyone could avoid it unless you go off the grid. Or you could control every aspect of your kids’ lives, but there’s no guarantee that they won’t get themselves into trouble when they grow up. Turning off the internet can help, but it’s never going to be as simple as that.
Yes, it certainly isn’t easy to set boundaries for our kids sometimes! But the ever-mounting evidence of the harm to their mental health from excessive social media and Internet use makes it worth the effort.
I don’t think it’s a question of preventing them from being exposed to the ideology as much as it’s about putting in the quality time with them to show them that they are loved and just fine as who and what they are. There is no substitute for that. The experiences of the PITT parents confirm it.
The worst aspect of the trans fad is that when it implodes, men will have a field day with it. All the stats and data that women have painstakingly collected to prove trans ideology is toxic to women will be turned against us, against all women, to "prove" how unstable we are and how unreliable and susceptible we are to "mass hysteria".
The trans-identified men will be dismissed as sexual adventurers, bravely exploring their emotional and sexual complexity (Well, ladies, isn't that what you always demanded of men? To stop being so homophobic and emotionally constipated? You finally got what you want and STILL you complain). When men detransition, they will be celebrated for completing their journey of self-discovery.
But trans-identified women make up the majority of recent transitions, and since we have declared that the gender dysphoria of women is based on wanting to escape from misogyny, along with comorbid autism and a history of childhood sexual abuse, our transitions will be framed purely as a mental health crisis.
Every incel jackass on the planet will be slithering out of the primordial patriarchal ooze to proclaim what they always "knew" - all women are basically crazy, we all secretly want to be men (even though we hate men), and it's dangerous and irresponsible to allow women to have any amount of power or autonomy. Never mind the fact that all of the trans rapists and pedophiles were (and still are) MEN, when the detransition tsunami finally hits the shore, the focus and blame will be on the women. Keep your bookmarks to all those articles about male trans predators - we're going to need them.
I think we’re already seeing that now. But don’t lose hope: women are capable of speaking up about our experiences, even in the face of sexism. But I agree, the hardest hit are LGB people and women. That being said: there are PLENTY of men who view men who damage their penises in any way as batshit crazy and regard them with nothing but horror and pity. I think you’re underestimating that. But I agree, we tend to afford men more perceptions of competence and than deserve.
And we thought the Hari Krishna and Moonies were bad in my youth....
When I was in school, a friend got recruited into an actual cult by a teacher. He wasn't more stupid or naive than the other students. The teacher just got to him when his father died and he was temporarily vulnerable.
I distrust anyone who proselytizes and I deeply disdain anyone who does so from a position of authority. I don't care if someone thinks that they are proselytizing for world peace. Every child-catcher from a cult thought he was with the good people, too.